Senior Product Designer

Automattic Careers
Full_timeβ€’$95k-200k/year (USD)

πŸ“ Job Overview

Job Title: Senior Product Designer Company: Automattic Careers Location: Remote Job Type: Full-Time Category: Product Design / User Experience Date Posted: January 14, 2026 Experience Level: 5-10 Years Remote Status: Remote Solely

πŸš€ Role Summary

  • Design exceptional user experiences for a global suite of influential digital products, including WordPress.com, WooCommerce, and Tumblr, driving user engagement and satisfaction.
  • Lead the end-to-end product design lifecycle, from initial concept and user research through to development and ongoing optimization, ensuring seamless integration of user needs with business objectives.
  • Collaborate closely with a globally distributed team of engineers, marketers, and customer support specialists to deliver high-quality, accessible, and innovative digital solutions.
  • Contribute to the advancement of both Automattic's proprietary products and the broader open-source and design communities, fostering a culture of shared innovation and best practices.
  • Utilize advanced design and prototyping tools, with a strong emphasis on Figma, to create detailed, high-fidelity designs and iterate rapidly based on user feedback and market trends.

πŸ“ Enhancement Note: The role of Senior Product Designer at Automattic, given their extensive product portfolio (WordPress.com, WooCommerce, Tumblr) and fully remote, global structure, implies a significant focus on end-to-end product ownership and cross-functional collaboration. The emphasis on "designing experiences for millions of users" and "keeping the web free and open" suggests a need for designers who can balance user-centricity with a commitment to open-source principles and broad accessibility. The "Senior" title indicates expectations for leadership, mentorship, and strategic contribution beyond individual design tasks.

πŸ“ˆ Primary Responsibilities

  • Conceptualize, design, and deliver exceptional product experiences across Automattic’s portfolio, from initial ideation through to post-launch optimization.
  • Conduct user research, competitive analysis, and market trend assessments to inform design decisions and ensure products meet evolving user needs and business goals.
  • Create and iterate on detailed wireframes, interactive prototypes, and high-fidelity visual designs using tools like Figma, effectively communicating design intent and user flows.
  • Actively participate in all phases of the product development lifecycle, working closely with engineering teams to ensure accurate implementation of designs and to resolve technical challenges.
  • Present design concepts, research findings, and strategic recommendations clearly and persuasively to cross-functional teams and stakeholders through written, verbal, and visual communication.
  • Uphold and advance Automattic's design system and best practices, contributing to the evolution of design standards across the organization.
  • Engage with the broader design and open-source communities, potentially contributing to community forums, documentation, or open-source projects.
  • Integrate feedback from user research, customer support insights, and internal teams to continuously improve product usability and effectiveness.
  • Align design solutions with business strategies and technical constraints, ensuring a balance between user experience, functionality, and feasibility.

πŸ“ Enhancement Note: The responsibilities highlight a need for a designer who can operate autonomously and strategically. The mention of "definition to development and optimization" points to a full-cycle design role. The emphasis on "communicate and share often in written, verbal, and visual forms" is crucial for a remote team, indicating that clear documentation and presentation skills are as important as the design output itself. Contribution to "larger open-source and design communities" suggests an expectation for thought leadership and community engagement.

πŸŽ“ Skills & Qualifications

Education:

  • Bachelor's degree in Graphic Design, Interaction Design, Human-Computer Interaction (HCI), or a related field, or equivalent practical experience.

Experience:

  • 5-10 years of professional experience in product design, UX/UI design, or a similar role, with a proven track record of designing and shipping successful digital products.
  • Demonstrated experience working on consumer-facing products and a strong understanding of user-centered design principles and methodologies.

Required Skills:

  • Proficiency in Design & Prototyping Tools: Expert-level command of Figma for wireframing, interactive prototyping, and high-fidelity visual design.
  • User Experience (UX) Design: Deep understanding of user research, persona development, user journey mapping, information architecture, and usability testing.
  • UI & Visual Design: Strong aesthetic sensibilities, with the ability to create visually appealing, consistent, and intuitive interfaces that align with brand guidelines.
  • Communication & Collaboration: Excellent written and verbal communication skills, with the ability to articulate design decisions, present work effectively, and collaborate seamlessly with remote, cross-functional teams.
  • Product Development Lifecycle: Familiarity with agile methodologies and experience working effectively within product development cycles alongside engineers and product managers.
  • Problem-Solving: Ability to analyze complex user needs and business requirements, translating them into elegant and effective design solutions.
  • Feedback Integration: Skill in receiving, synthesizing, and acting upon constructive feedback from users, stakeholders, and team members to refine designs.

Preferred Skills:

  • Experience with open-source communities and contributing to open-source projects.
  • Familiarity with WordPress, WooCommerce, or other content management/e-commerce platforms.
  • Experience designing for global audiences and understanding of localization and accessibility best practices.
  • Knowledge of HTML, CSS, and JavaScript to better understand technical constraints and possibilities.
  • Experience with design systems and contributing to their development and maintenance.
  • Previous experience in a fully remote work environment.

πŸ“ Enhancement Note: The "past work experience that is relevant for Automattic" and specific examples like "consumer products, remote work, WordPress, e-commerce, site editors" are key indicators of desired background. The requirement for "strong UI and visual design skills with a portfolio showcasing your craft in both written and visual form" emphasizes the need for a comprehensive portfolio that demonstrates not just visual output but also the strategic thinking and communication behind it, especially in written format for a remote context.

πŸ“Š Process & Systems Portfolio Requirements

Portfolio Essentials:

  • End-to-End Case Studies: Showcase 2-3 comprehensive case studies detailing your process from problem identification and user research through design solutions, prototyping, and outcomes.
  • Process Documentation: Clearly articulate your design process, including how you gather insights, define problems, explore solutions, and iterate based on feedback.
  • Figma Proficiency: Demonstrate advanced skills in Figma, including complex prototyping, component libraries, and design system contributions where applicable.
  • Visual Design Excellence: Highlight strong visual design skills through polished UI mockups, style guides, and an understanding of visual hierarchy, typography, and color theory.
  • Impact & Results: Quantify the impact of your designs whenever possible, using metrics related to user engagement, conversion rates, task completion, or satisfaction.
  • Written Communication: Include written explanations within case studies that articulate your rationale, challenges, and learnings, demonstrating strong written communication abilities.

Process Documentation:

  • Workflow Design: Evidence of designing and optimizing user workflows and information architecture for complex digital products.
  • Prototyping & User Testing: Documentation of how prototypes were used for user testing and validation, including insights gained and subsequent design iterations.
  • Cross-functional Collaboration: Examples of how you've collaborated with engineers, product managers, and other stakeholders throughout the design process, including how you managed feedback and alignment.
  • Design System Contribution: If applicable, showcase contributions to or usage of design systems, demonstrating an understanding of scalability and consistency in design.

πŸ“ Enhancement Note: The requirement for a portfolio that includes "both written and visual form" is critical for a remote role. Candidates should prepare case studies that are not only visually rich but also contain detailed written narratives explaining their thought process, challenges, and outcomes. This demonstrates their ability to communicate effectively in writing, a cornerstone of remote collaboration. The mention of "designing exceptional products from start to finish" implies that portfolios should cover the entire design lifecycle, not just isolated UI elements.

πŸ’΅ Compensation & Benefits

Salary Range: $95,000 - $200,000 USD per year. Note: This range is global and paid in local currency. Automattic's compensation philosophy emphasizes paying for potential contribution and impact, which may exceed the stated range for exceptional candidates.

Benefits:

  • Open Vacation Policy: Employees are encouraged to take the time off they need to rest and recharge, fostering a healthy work-life balance.
  • Fully Remote Work Environment: The opportunity to work from anywhere in the world, promoting flexibility and autonomy.
  • Comprehensive Health Coverage: Access to health, dental, and vision insurance, with specifics varying by country.
  • Retirement Savings Plans: Options for retirement savings, with details available on their Benefits Page.
  • Professional Development: Support for continuous learning, including access to resources, training, and potentially conference attendance.
  • Parental Leave: Generous paid leave for new parents.
  • Life and Disability Insurance: Coverage to provide financial security.
  • Stipends: Potential for home office setup stipends or other work-related expense reimbursements.

Working Hours: While specific hours are not mandated due to the fully remote and globally distributed nature of the company, effective collaboration and timely responses are expected. Automatticians typically work approximately 40 hours per week, with flexibility to manage their schedules around core collaboration times and team needs.

πŸ“ Enhancement Note: The salary range is explicitly stated as global. This means candidates should not assume the range is tied to a specific US location's cost of living. Automattic's compensation philosophy also suggests that salary is highly performance- and impact-driven, so candidates should be prepared to articulate their value proposition beyond standard experience. The "Open Vacation Policy" is a notable benefit that signals a culture of trust and employee well-being.

🎯 Team & Company Context

🏒 Company Culture

Industry: Technology (Software, Internet Services, E-commerce, Publishing) Company Size: 1,400+ employees (as of the latest available data). This indicates a mature, well-established company with significant resources and established processes, yet with a culture that values agility and individual contribution. Founded: 2005. This long tenure signifies stability, resilience, and a deep understanding of the web and its evolution.

Team Structure:

  • Globally Distributed: Teams are spread across numerous countries and time zones, requiring strong asynchronous communication skills and a high degree of autonomy.
  • Cross-Functional Collaboration: Designers work closely with engineers, product managers, marketers, and customer support specialists, fostering a collaborative environment where diverse perspectives inform product development.
  • Project-Based Teams: Employees often work on specific products or features within project teams, allowing for focused effort and specialized collaboration.
  • Decentralized Decision-Making: While strategic direction is set at a higher level, teams and individuals are empowered to make decisions relevant to their areas of ownership.

Methodology:

  • Agile & Iterative Development: Products are developed and improved through continuous cycles of design, development, testing, and feedback.
  • Data-Driven Insights: Decisions are informed by user data, analytics, and feedback from customer support, aiming for evidence-based improvements.
  • Open Source Principles: A strong commitment to open source influences product development, community engagement, and transparency.
  • User-Centric Design: The primary focus is on understanding and serving the needs of millions of users across diverse platforms and use cases.
  • Asynchronous Communication: Emphasis on written communication, documentation, and tools that support collaboration across different time zones and schedules.

Company Website: https://automattic.com/

πŸ“ Enhancement Note: Automattic's description as a "distributed company with more than 1400 Automatticians in nearly every corner of the globe" highlights its commitment to remote work and diversity. The mission to "democratize publishing, commerce, and messaging" provides a strong sense of purpose that product designers should align with. The mention of being a "Most Loved Company" and "Disability Confident Committed" points to a positive and inclusive work environment.

πŸ“ˆ Career & Growth Analysis

Operations Career Level: Senior Product Designer. This role implies a significant level of autonomy, strategic input, and the ability to lead design initiatives. It suggests a candidate who can not only execute designs but also influence product direction and mentor junior team members.

Reporting Structure: While specific reporting lines can vary by project and team, Senior Product Designers typically report to a Design Lead, Head of Design, or a Product Manager. They work collaboratively with engineering leads and product managers within their assigned product areas.

Operations Impact: Senior Product Designers at Automattic have a direct and substantial impact on the user experience of millions worldwide. Their work influences user acquisition, retention, engagement, and satisfaction across flagship products like WordPress.com and WooCommerce. By designing accessible and intuitive interfaces, they contribute to Automattic's mission of democratizing publishing and commerce, thereby impacting global online presence and e-commerce accessibility.

Growth Opportunities:

  • Leadership in Design: Potential to grow into Design Lead roles, managing teams of designers and shaping design strategy for specific product areas or the entire company.
  • Product Strategy Influence: Deeper involvement in product strategy, contributing to roadmaps and long-term vision based on design expertise and user insights.
  • Specialization: Opportunity to specialize in specific product domains (e.g., e-commerce, publishing platforms, mobile experiences) or skill areas (e.g., design systems, user research leadership).
  • Mentorship: Taking on mentorship responsibilities for junior designers, contributing to their professional development and the overall design team's growth.
  • Cross-Product Impact: Applying design expertise across Automattic's diverse product suite, broadening experience and impact.
  • Community Contribution: Further engagement with and contribution to the open-source and design communities, building personal and company reputation.

πŸ“ Enhancement Note: The "Senior" title, combined with Automattic's culture of empowerment, suggests that growth opportunities will involve increased ownership, strategic influence, and potentially leadership. The emphasis on "net positive impact" for Automattic implies that career progression is tied to tangible contributions and the ability to drive significant improvements across their product ecosystem.

🌐 Work Environment

Office Type: Fully remote. This means there is no central physical office for day-to-day work. Employees work from their chosen locations worldwide. Office Location(s): No specific office location; the company operates as a distributed workforce across nearly every corner of the globe.

Workspace Context:

  • Home Office Environment: Employees are expected to maintain a productive and professional workspace within their own homes or chosen remote locations.
  • Digital Collaboration Tools: Reliance on a suite of digital tools for communication, project management, and design collaboration (e.g., Slack, Zoom, Google Workspace, Figma, internal tools).
  • Autonomy and Flexibility: High degree of autonomy over work schedule and location, balanced with the need for effective collaboration and responsiveness within global teams.
  • Global Team Interaction: Opportunities to interact with colleagues from diverse cultural backgrounds, fostering a rich and varied work environment.

Work Schedule: Flexible, but requires active participation in team meetings, asynchronous communication, and availability for collaboration during core working hours relevant to their project teams. The "Open Vacation Policy" suggests a culture that prioritizes well-being and personal time, but core responsibilities must be met.

πŸ“ Enhancement Note: The "fully remote company" aspect is central to the work environment. This means candidates must be comfortable and effective working independently, managing their time, and communicating primarily through digital channels. The "open vacation policy" and "compensation philosophy" reinforce a culture of trust and results-orientation, where employees are empowered to manage their time while delivering high impact.

πŸ“„ Application & Portfolio Review Process

Interview Process:

  • Initial Application Review: Screening of resume and portfolio for relevant experience, skills, and alignment with Automattic's values.
  • Portfolio Presentation & Discussion: A dedicated session where candidates present their portfolio, walking through case studies and discussing their design process, rationale, and impact. This is often a key evaluation point.
  • Design Challenge/Exercise: Candidates may be given a design problem to solve, either as a take-home assignment or an in-interview exercise, to assess their problem-solving skills, design thinking, and execution.
  • Cross-Functional Interviews: Interviews with engineers, product managers, and other designers to assess collaboration skills, communication style, and ability to work within a team.
  • Cultural Fit/Values Interview: Discussions to gauge alignment with Automattic's mission, values (e.g., open source, diversity, user focus), and remote work culture.
  • Final Interview: A concluding conversation, potentially with senior leadership, to discuss overall fit, career aspirations, and final decision-making.

Portfolio Review Tips:

  • Show, Don't Just Tell: Use your portfolio to visually demonstrate your design process and outcomes. For each case study, clearly outline the problem, your role, your process, the solutions, and the results.
  • Highlight Remote Collaboration: If possible, include examples or discuss how you've successfully collaborated with remote teams, managed asynchronous communication, and contributed to distributed projects.
  • Emphasize Written Communication: Since the job description stresses written communication, ensure your portfolio's written explanations are clear, concise, and compelling. Articulate your design rationale and decision-making process effectively in text.
  • Quantify Impact: Whenever possible, use metrics to demonstrate the success of your designs. This could include user engagement, conversion rates, task completion times, or user satisfaction scores.
  • Figma Focus: Given Figma is the primary tool, ensure your portfolio showcases your proficiency with it, highlighting advanced features, prototyping capabilities, and potentially design system work.
  • Tailor to Automattic: Research Automattic's products (WordPress.com, WooCommerce, Tumblr) and their mission. Try to connect your portfolio examples to their focus areas where relevant.

Challenge Preparation:

  • Understand the Problem: For any design challenge, take time to thoroughly understand the problem statement and its context. Ask clarifying questions if needed.
  • Articulate Your Process: Be prepared to explain your step-by-step approach, from initial research and ideation to sketching, wireframing, prototyping, and testing.
  • Focus on User Needs: Demonstrate how your solutions address specific user needs and pain points.
  • Consider Technical Constraints: Show awareness of potential technical limitations and how you would work with engineers to find feasible solutions.
  • Present Clearly: Practice presenting your work concisely and persuasively, focusing on key decisions and outcomes.

πŸ“ Enhancement Note: The emphasis on "written, verbal, and visual forms" for communication means candidates should prepare for an interview process that heavily evaluates their ability to articulate their thoughts clearly in writing and verbally, in addition to showcasing visual design skills. The portfolio review is highlighted as a critical component, suggesting candidates should invest significant time in curating and presenting their work effectively.

πŸ›  Tools & Technology Stack

Primary Tools:

  • Figma: The core design and prototyping tool used extensively for wireframing, UI design, interactive prototyping, and collaboration. Proficiency is essential.
  • Prototyping Tools: While Figma is primary, familiarity with other prototyping tools may be beneficial for specific use cases or historical projects.
  • Design Systems: Experience working with and contributing to design systems for maintaining consistency and scalability across products.

Analytics & Reporting:

  • Product Analytics Platforms: Familiarity with tools like Amplitude, Mixpanel, or Google Analytics to understand user behavior, track key metrics, and inform design decisions. (Specific tools may vary by product team).
  • Data Visualization Tools: Ability to interpret data from dashboards and reports to understand product performance and user trends.

CRM & Automation:

  • Project Management Tools: Experience with tools like Asana, Trello, or Jira for managing design tasks, tracking progress, and collaborating with development teams.
  • Communication Platforms: Proficiency in Slack for real-time communication and Google Workspace (Docs, Sheets, Slides) for documentation and presentations.

Other Relevant Tools:

  • User Research Tools: Familiarity with tools for conducting user interviews, surveys, and usability testing (e.g., UserTesting.com, Maze, Typeform).
  • Version Control Systems (Conceptual): While not directly designing code, understanding concepts of version control (like Git) can aid collaboration with engineers.

πŸ“ Enhancement Note: Figma is explicitly mentioned as the tool used, making it a non-negotiable requirement. The role also implies a need to work with data and analytics to inform design, so familiarity with product analytics tools is highly advantageous, even if not directly responsible for setting them up. The distributed nature of the company means proficiency in collaboration and project management tools is critical.

πŸ‘₯ Team Culture & Values

Operations Values:

  • Openness & Transparency: A commitment to open source and transparent communication, fostering trust and collaboration.
  • User Focus: Deep dedication to understanding and serving the needs of millions of users, making the web accessible and empowering.
  • Excellence & Quality: Striving for high-quality design and product experiences that are robust, user-friendly, and impactful.
  • Autonomy & Responsibility: Empowering individuals with the freedom to make decisions and take ownership of their work, balanced with accountability for results.
  • Diversity & Inclusion: Valuing diverse perspectives and backgrounds, creating an inclusive environment where everyone can contribute and thrive.
  • Continuous Learning: Encouraging a growth mindset, embracing new ideas, and continuously seeking to improve skills and knowledge.

Collaboration Style:

  • Asynchronous & Written First: Emphasis on clear, concise written communication for documentation, updates, and decision-making, allowing for flexibility across time zones.
  • Cross-Functional Partnership: Collaborative relationships built on mutual respect and shared goals with engineering, product, marketing, and support teams.
  • Feedback-Oriented: A culture that encourages constructive feedback, open discussion, and iterative improvement of both products and processes.
  • Global Connectivity: Regular interaction with colleagues from diverse cultural backgrounds, enriching perspectives and fostering a global team spirit.

πŸ“ Enhancement Note: Automattic's stated values, such as "making the web a better place," "democratizing publishing," and commitment to "Open Source," are central to their culture. Designers are expected to embody these values in their work, creating products that are not only functional and beautiful but also align with the company's broader mission and ethical considerations.

⚑ Challenges & Growth Opportunities

Challenges:

  • Designing for Scale: Creating intuitive and effective user experiences for millions of diverse users across multiple products requires careful consideration of scalability, accessibility, and usability.
  • Balancing Diverse Needs: Juggling the needs of different user segments (e.g., bloggers, e-commerce store owners, casual users) and stakeholders (business, engineering, community) can be complex.
  • Remote Collaboration Dynamics: Effectively collaborating, ideating, and driving consensus within a fully distributed and asynchronous team requires strong communication and self-management skills.
  • Navigating a Large Product Ecosystem: Understanding and contributing to a portfolio of established and evolving products (WordPress.com, WooCommerce, Tumblr) requires adaptability and a broad perspective.
  • Maintaining Design Consistency: Ensuring a cohesive and high-quality design experience across a diverse range of products while allowing for product-specific innovation.

Learning & Development Opportunities:

  • Mastering Design Systems: Deepening expertise in designing, implementing, and scaling design systems.
  • Cross-Product Design Expertise: Gaining in-depth knowledge of different product domains like e-commerce, content publishing, and social media platforms.
  • Leadership & Mentorship: Developing leadership skills through guiding design initiatives and mentoring junior designers.
  • Contributing to Open Source: Engaging with and contributing to the larger open-source design and development communities.
  • Advanced User Research: Exploring and applying advanced user research methodologies to uncover deeper user insights.
  • Strategic Product Influence: Growing capabilities in product strategy, roadmap planning, and influencing business direction through design.

πŸ“ Enhancement Note: The primary challenge will be adapting to Automattic's unique remote-first, asynchronous, and open-source-driven culture. Successfully navigating this environment requires proactive communication, strong self-discipline, and a collaborative spirit. Growth opportunities are framed around increasing strategic influence and leadership within the design function and product development lifecycle.

πŸ’‘ Interview Preparation

Strategy Questions:

  • "Describe a time you led the design of a complex feature or product from concept to launch. What was your process, what challenges did you face, and what was the outcome?" (Focus on end-to-end ownership, process, and impact.)
  • "How do you approach gathering and synthesizing user feedback, especially when working with a geographically dispersed user base?" (Highlight user research methods, feedback loops, and analytical skills.)
  • "Imagine you need to design a new feature for WooCommerce. How would you approach understanding the needs of small business owners and ensuring the design is both user-friendly and supports their business goals?" (Demonstrate strategic thinking, user empathy, and business acumen.)
  • "Our company is fully remote and relies heavily on asynchronous communication. How do you ensure effective collaboration and alignment with engineers and product managers in such an environment?" (Showcase communication strategies, documentation habits, and proactive engagement.)

Company & Culture Questions:

  • "What attracts you to Automattic's mission of democratizing publishing and commerce? How do you see your design philosophy aligning with this?" (Research Automattic's mission and values thoroughly.)
  • "How do you contribute to a positive and inclusive team culture, especially in a remote setting?" (Discuss collaboration, empathy, and building relationships.)
  • "What are your thoughts on open source software and its role in the modern web?" (Show understanding of Automattic's core principles.)
  • "Describe your experience with remote work. What are its benefits and challenges for you as a designer?" (Be honest and demonstrate adaptability.)

Portfolio Presentation Strategy:

  • Structure Your Narrative: For each case study, begin with the problem/opportunity, clearly state your role and responsibilities, detail your design process (research, ideation, prototyping, testing), showcase the final solution, and quantify the results/impact.
  • Highlight Figma Skills: Be prepared to walk through your Figma files, demonstrating your proficiency with components, prototyping, and potentially design system elements.
  • Emphasize Written Rationale: Clearly articulate your design decisions and the reasoning behind them in writing within your portfolio and verbally during the presentation.
  • Be Ready for Deep Dives: Anticipate questions about specific design choices, trade-offs you made, and how you handled feedback or technical constraints.
  • Connect to Automattic: Where possible, draw parallels between your portfolio projects and Automattic's products or mission.

πŸ“ Enhancement Note: The emphasis on written communication in the job description means candidates should prepare to articulate their design process and rationale in detail, both in their portfolio and during interviews. Be ready to discuss the "why" behind every design decision, not just the "what."

πŸ“Œ Application Steps

To apply for this Senior Product Designer position:

  • Submit your application through the provided link on the Automattic Careers portal.
  • Curate Your Portfolio: Select 2-3 of your strongest, most relevant case studies that demonstrate end-to-end product design experience, proficiency in Figma, and strong visual and UX skills. Ensure clear written explanations accompany each project.
  • Tailor Your Resume: Highlight experience relevant to consumer products, remote work, e-commerce, and any familiarity with WordPress or similar platforms. Quantify achievements where possible.
  • Prepare Your Presentation: Practice presenting your portfolio, focusing on clear articulation of your process, rationale, and the impact of your work. Be ready to discuss your experience with asynchronous communication and remote collaboration.
  • Research Automattic: Thoroughly familiarize yourself with Automattic's products (WordPress.com, WooCommerce, Tumblr), mission, values, and remote work culture. Understand their commitment to open source and user empowerment.

⚠️ Important Notice: This enhanced job description includes AI-generated insights and operations industry-standard assumptions. All details should be verified directly with the hiring organization before making application decisions.

Application Requirements

Candidates should have relevant experience with consumer products and a strong understanding of user needs. Proficiency in design tools and excellent communication skills are also required.