#17 - Yorbi Barriento Lopez - Starting in Graphic Design, the UX boom & Friends of Figma.

26 min read • Dianne Eberhardt

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Dianne: Hello everyone. Welcome to the Pixelated Perfect podcast. I am super excited for today's episode. We have Yorbi here with us. Hi Yorbi.

Yorbi: Hi. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here today.

Dianne: We're so excited to have you. So I know Yorbi because we connected through Friends of Figma community in Buenos. And so I had some quick conversations with him, but I know he's doing some really, really awesome things in the design space. So I'm really excited to kind of dive deeper into his career. So super excited to jump in. So let's hit the ground running. Can you tell me when design first came into your life?

Yorbi: Probably that was like when I was so little. Like, I was like 12, 13, 14, I don't remember, but it was back in the day where we didn't have like the things that we do right now, like the platforms or like the tools We, I remember having like Photoshop and trying to invest myself into understanding how you can connect to the internet and see stuff right there, like the banners. I remember like the banners at that time Google was new. So it was like everything so new to me and so interesting because I really love art somehow. Being a graphic designer it's like somehow you love art in a different way, like digital type of art. 100%. So probably when I was little I was so into it and I found like an a place being on a computer and creating stuff. I do remember creating stuff for celebrities.

Like we didn't have Twitter back in the day. We have like a blog or stuff when we, where we were creating, I don't know if you, if you went through that too, like creating banners for celebrities or signs on forums. Like that was back in the day. The things that I did that made me probably became a graphic designer or a digital graphic designer. Yeah. so that's where it all started. I started graphic design in Venezuela and then I moved to Argentina,, this is where I'm living right now in Buenos Air. I moved here just, I just came out of college from graphic design and that was like my first job I get into ans and their wishes an an agency that was like my first approach to, to the field, you know? I, I knew like I wanted to be on the web design type of part that was like, was that's where I'm meant to be. I, I knew that back in the day. And that's how it all started. Like I started working on an agency with good, with really good like clients. Like for example, they have river play. I don't know if you have heard about? The team? The team, yeah. The soccer team.

Dianne: Yeah.

Yorbi: Yes. And that's where it all start. Yeah.

Dianne: Yeah. No, that's great. So, so some questions I also first wanna say, I think I was saying this on the last podcast for everyone that listened to the last one is that I also got started with Photoshop and I would like take my friends' faces and put them on like celebrities or like next to like their celebrity crush. So it looked like they were together. That was like my thing. It's like, my friends all wanted one. That's fun. Yeah, it was super fun. I think that's a great way to kinda get started in like the digital art space, so I can totally relate. Yes. So you studied graphic design in Venezuela. Why did you move to Argentina?

Yorbi: Wow, that's such a nice question. I moved to Argentina because of many reasons, but one was because I traveled there as a vacation and I felt really in love with the city because it was like, so culture, like fully culture, like walking on the street, you can see art, you know, like you can see many good reference of art in Argentina. Like the, the industry right there. It's like really fully of culture. I don't know if I'm saying it right, but

Dianne: Yeah.

Yorbi: But that was one of the main reasons I was actually going to move to Mexico. But, but then I traveled to Argentina and I was like, oh my gosh, this is so good. Like, this is so beautiful. Like the people is really good, like really friendly. And I really have that connection with the kind of art that I was talking about at the beginning. And in fact one of the first years jobs I had in Argentina was as a graphic designer. So that was really good, you know, like, yeah, somehow I got to Argentina and two weeks later I got the job and that was so crazy and really like, I felt like so blessed and I was in that for five years. That's a nice thing to say too. Yeah.

Dianne: Yeah. I feel like us design actually just generational. Like I feel like no one stays in a company that long. So I think that's, that's awesome. Like, that's awesome cause that's like your first job and you feel like you had that connection and could like grow there. So yeah, I wanna dive deeper in this first job because I think like, I think we wanna know more. But I also, I also love Windows Earth and I think there is something cultural. I think it's like being there, it's, you feel the energy of the city and I can totally understand from an art designer standpoint wanting to be there. There's just so much in that space, like happening all around you

Yorbi: So much. Yes. Like I, I love walk, I love walking around. Like, yeah, you can walk everywhere and find stuff and find like a good spot and that's really purely, that's really pretty. That's really beautiful.

Dianne: Yeah. Agreed. Okay. I, yes, we were talking before this about our love for Argentina and how I'm ready to go back. So yes, I, I really so yeah. So how did you get this first job? You said you, you moved to wino service and in two weeks you had a job, like, that's awesome. Like, what was that like?

Yorbi: I remember getting there to one insider, not knowing where to go first. I think I was, I was looking on LinkedIn I don't know, places on the internet like where to like looking for a job. But then I went to Twitter and was like using hashtags. I got to Buenos Air's job opportunity as a web designer and I sent my, my resume to the email that they were putting on the tweet. That was like seven years ago. I don't know, it's crazy because probably Twitter right now is a good place to find a job or something, but at that time it was like, well, I'm gonna try. And that was like, yeah, like really good. I sent my email with my stuff and I had the meeting like two days later, so I gotta meet with them. And it was a really small agency back in the day.

They, we, we were like 20 people. When I left five years later there are, there were like 100 people on the company. So it was, it grow as I did. I remember growing in that agency, like, because as you say, five years is a lot of time. Yeah. Working in an agency where the times are like really fast and you have to move fast to, to growth. That was like such a nice place to like grow professionally. And personally because the people were good, like really helpful because we were like really small. We have this like kind of family connection and me moving from another country, I was the only one, I was the only like foreign there in the company when we started, right. Because then we were start growing and of course we were like adding more people, but it was like a place or a family to me at that point. Yeah,

Dianne: That's amazing. Amazing.

Yorbi: Yeah.

Dianne: So question about, I think what listeners would wanna know is like, what is it like starting in a company that's small and growing? Like, I wanna hear how you grew, but also like how were, how did the dynamics of the company company change?

Yorbi: I dunno where to start for probably because you can see the growing on the company. You can see how the projects start, like flooring and like, Hey, we have this to do and we have this other thing and we got this. And you can see the proudness on the company, like on the family because this was a family. But you can see like how everything starts to develop on the outside, like seeing from this point of view right now. Like of course living that as my first job in the field, you can see that like, wow, that's a nice place to start and grow an agency. I can say it's a good place to start as a graphic designer because you can understand every field or everything that is connected to the field of graphic design or web design or product design or UX design.

You can understand what a manager does or you can understand what the sales people does. And that's something that you can, you can grow with. Like you just don't see it. You can learn from that. Probably that's, that's something that I'm really like, I don't know how to say this, but like, I'm really good about the fact that I I was part of this process, of this growing. Yeah. It was about the celebration of the fact that we were growing. It was about the celebration of the fact that we were like connecting, having understanding about each other and learning about each other because I was a t-shirt to, to other people that were part of the Latino that were being part of the team. I remember I had a d of 10, 10 people where we had UI designers and front end developers where we were like delivering landing pages for our, for our clients or we were part of the website of our client.For example, as I say, river Play, Nestle we had like really, really good clients and that was good too. I, I didn't had to travel with them, like with the company. I had to, I got to travel to Brazil and to Colombia and, and that was good too. Because somehow they value your work and they value because being in a company for so long. So it was like giving my mark and they giving them, so it was like a trade off because of the growing, you know, they were growing and I was growing professionally and personally, like meeting so many people and getting to work with so many amazing people. That was good. Yeah.

Dianne: Yeah. I can like feel how nostalgic it was, like how much of a good time it was being there, and I think that's really wonderful. And I also love what you said about like, that's a great place to start because you can see what it's like to try out so many things like graphic design, UI design, manager, salesperson, and I think especially as like a first step in your career, it's really great to like be surrounded by all of these options that you have. So I think that's really awesome and I think that's a great case for being at an agency. I think that you do get exposed to so, so many different things. And that's a great start to a career.

Yorbi: Yes, definitely. And I can say that helps you to like know where to go, for example, I understand how you go professionally on your career path. Like, well, I know this thing about sales and I know these things about leadership or management and okay, I can be more like upper designer type of thing or I can do prouder lead or design lead. You know, like you can reference from those from those knowledge, you know?

Dianne: Yeah. Yeah. Well said. I think that's, that's great. And that's really awesome. Yeah. So where, so you started at, you did, you started start as a graphic designer. And within those five years, what were those different roles that you took on?

Yorbi: Well, I started as a web designer. I was a first web designer on the company. Yeah. and then I started growing, growing, and then UX came along, like the UX thing or boom,. Yes. And I was like, okay, I'm really interested in this. Then Figma came in my life in 2017. I do remember like exactly that probably I was on Twitter journal. I saw like a post for someone probably. That was how, how I found out about Figma. And I do remember not having a Mac and that was the reason I download Figma, because I didn't have a Mac back in the day. Like I had Windows. And so I couldn't have a sketch. And I was like the outsider because I didn't have a sketch and I was using Photoshop and Illustrator to yes, to web design things. So I found Figma they didn't have anything like what they do have now.

That wasn't it. Yeah. It was so simple, but it, it was like really worth it. And Figma has always been like open to the collaboration, like you can share a link since the beginning. And that was really good to me because I was because I could share my work with some others with my clients or stakeholders or other teammates. Like that was so easy. And I actually got to add Figma to the team at that moment, in that moment in my life. Nice. Then all these 10 people, all these same person that were part of the team were using Figma, were learning Figma too, because Figma was really, really new at that moment. Yeah. So yeah, that was like, that was it.

Dianne: Yeah. I I love your love letter to Figma. I, I also was a pretty early adopter of Figma and like, I don't remember the exact moment, like you, but I do remember when I found Figma, I was like, everything's gonna change from here. Like, my career's gonna change. Cuz I started, when I started it was web design and I was doing it in Photoshop and like, we, no one wants to remember those days, like at all.

Yorbi: Fun fact, fun fact about Argentina is that I found out I used more illustrated and Photoshop for web design. That's a fun fact. Interesting. Yes. It was like weird to me. Like I got edit the edit files Uhhuh from, from Illustrator, from like, I was Why is, why is people using Illustrator to web this design? Because it's harder there. I don't know why. Yeah. But that's a fun fact. You can ask any Argentina, like what's the main tool they use? Use and they probably going to say, illustrated us. That's nice.

Past students. Yes.

Dianne: Yeah. I wanna ask like in our, on our Instagram, I wanna like open up before Sketch, before Figma. Like, what, did you guys use Photoshop or,

Yorbi: Yes.

Dianne: I like that question. That's

Yorbi: A nice question. Yes,

Dianne: Yes. That's really interesting

Yorbi: A marketing Photoshop though.

Dianne: Yeah, I, I honestly never even thought to use Illustrator for. Like I would do it for branding, not for,

Yorbi: Yeah. Yeah.

Dianne: Not for like layouts for like in design if you're laying something out, but I don't know. I remember that brings me back.

Yorbi: I remember having like the smart smart objects, I don't know how to say it in Photoshop, I don't remember, but having a smart object to like using a logo on a website and like replicate it everywhere. Yes. And not losing in the connection as you do right now with components in big, like,

Dianne: Oh my gosh. Yes. And you had to line everything. Oh my gosh. Like horse race. Ok. I can't talk about anymore. It's the awful, and yeah, I mean, Photoshop was awful. I will, I, I moved to Sketch and like, of course Sketch was way easier, but it's still, there was still something missing. I think it was definitely like having to share files and everyone had to work. And so obviously there was a space for Figma and when it came in it really truly was like cha life changing. And at that time I was freelancing and so all of, and I was remote, so it was really hard to work with other designers and then to share to customers. And it was like, I feel like I spent so many wasted hours just trying to show people people what I was

Yorbi: Doing. Yeah. 100% actually from fact then after working on this agency, I'm, I started working on LA, which is a newspaper in Argentina. I dunno, you know it. Yes. It's really famous right there. I started working in Laia and we had Sketch, we have to work with a, with a sketch and I was like a heavy Figma user. So I was like, why are we working with a sketch where, where you have to share files and share like libraries and stuff. And of course, one month, one month later I saw FMA inside and then we move everything to Figma because that was way that was needed. Oh. And the pandemic didn't happen. So that was like, oh, this is good.

Dianne: Yeah. Figma really planned that out. Well no one could have predicted, but man, like how Figma changed. That's interesting. Oh, I feel like that's like an interesting topic, how Figma helped designers in the pandemic.

Yorbi: Wow, that's such a nice topic. Figma was there to the collaboration on the online space. Like as for us right now, having this conversation on this online space by Zoom or like by any platform where we see our faces, Figma was there to see our cur cursors or pointers.

Dianne: Yes.

Yorbi: So I love that. Yeah. So like, and I do believe like creating on the internet or creating and overall it's about people and it's about creating with each other. So yeah, I can see that on Figma. Like Figma gave us that opportunity to create with each other. And I I do actually remember like when we had files on Photoshop for example we were like, I don't wanna share how I did this on, or how our job where we were like that, right.

Dianne: Remember like, oh, we do things our way and like, it took me a long time to figure this out so I don't wanna share

Yorbi: My knowledge. Exactly. And I don't know, I think about that and I was like, I don't feel like that's nice. Why? Where are we so like jealous about our work? Right. And I, I do feel like Figma gave us that opportunity to open ourself to share knowledge, to share experience, to share this opportunity. Like yeah, I do feel like it's an open space for people to create.

Dianne: That was very well said. I feel like that's a great quote. It definitely gave us that opportunity. It definitely, it definitely has a lot to do with how we collaborate today. Yeah. And I love what you said about like collaboration, design. Like that's what at the design project, we say that all the time. I tell customers that like the designers, like we, while we will all kind of be working on design, like sharing and getting feedback and collaborating is really what design's about. And that's really where like multiple people coming in with ideas is really where we can create something that's perfect for the users or the problems we're solving.

Yorbi: Exactly. Exactly. Because collaboration is not just about the fa of creating, but connecting and sharing that knowledge to our, to our users. And you can see that on the final product how how like the iterations of our fast iteration on a file were happened. And yeah, you can see that on the final up product. That's crazy because like going back and forward with files, that was harder. I do believe in the iteration was harder to do

Dianne: So. Right. It felt more like final versus I think Figma allows us to, to be open to those iterations and knowing that everything we do is not final

Yorbi:. Exactly. Not ever.

Dianne: Ok. So I wanna kinda pick back up cause that was great, our little tangent. Like obviously we're big lovers over here. Yeah,

Yorbi: That was 100%.

Dianne: But let's go too. So you're at this agency for five years. You learned a lot and you, you said you kind of made that jump to law Ion. So what was, what was your reason? Why, why did you

Yorbi: Yeah. Switch careers? I do have an answer for that. Ok. It was because I wanted to jump into product. That was a moment that I say, okay, I have many tools in my head or in my hands as I said, like management or product. And I wanted to, to jump into product to see the other point of view. Because working in an agency you see one point of view of the, of what you're doing. You're not the client. And working in a product, it's different. It's another point of view. You're working with an agency, you work with agencies, but you're working inside of the product to create things. You have probably more a different decision on a different direction inside of a company. And that's what I wanted to experience myself. And right now I, after , I'm, I'm actually, I'm currently working in Super Bank Super, which is a bank in Argentina leading the design system team. That was, or this is happening because this is something that I wanted, I wanted to work in a product. I wanted to work in product like itself, like on the product team. This is nice. Yeah. Like, because I have all the knowledge from the agency, the timing and everything. But I can deliver differently inside of the product. Yeah,

Dianne: Yeah. So what would you tell designers that maybe have been working in the agency and wanna move to product? Like what would be your advice to land those, those jobs in a company where you would be diving deep into the product?

Yorbi: Yes. Working in an agency. Give you some, give you so many tools. For example, as I say, like the knowledge from other roles or the timing to create stuff. The feedback you get from the client, like you understand the client a lot better. And I do believe like for all the designers that are, that are currently working on agency, you are in a good place. That's really nice because if, if that's a starting point, I I can see a bright future on you because agencies are like a good starting point. I'm not saying that agencies are bad, actually agencies are amazing. I would love to work in an agency again. But that's a good starting point to jump into product because you will see the other part or or the other point of view that product doesn't have because, you know, product is using or it's a higher hiring the agencies to do stuff. So, or to collaborate with something. So as a product, product theme, like you get, you can do that, like that jump right with that knowledge. Like you have the knowledge, you have the tools, right. You are in a good place and you can jump into product. Like e I will, I wouldn't say easily, but yeah, you, you have that, that could be my advice. Like keep, keep going and keep delivering those good stuff. Yeah.

Dianne: So it's like don't be afraid to reach out and try something new. You have those skills, you will succeed. You shouldn't be afraid to make that leap.

Yorbi: Exactly. Yeah.

Dianne: I love that. And so how do you feel the difference between, I mean, what's said out there and my experience as well, I would like to know yours is like agency. It's like you move really fast. You a lot of people get burned out at agencies. You're doing 10,000 things versus being in a company where you're deep diving into a product. It's usually, so you're usually more focused and you go into more detail and you have that time. Would you say that's accurate?

Yorbi: Yeah. I would say like, because of my experience, I, there were days that I felt burnt out in an agency because you have so many options, so many things to do. Like once you're doing a newsletter and the other day you're doing the UI key for a product or then you're doing a banner, I don't know. And of course you touch a lot of things, a lot of subjects and a lot of designs or or stuff. Yeah. And that burned out actually exists, but inside of the product it does too because you're seeing the same product over and over again. You know, so it's not about being on the agency, you know, being on the product that you don't get the burnt out. The burnt out is right there as a, as a designer or as a creator. Yeah. Because you're always creating stuff.

It's just about understanding that it's right there and that it will happen. But you said about that, like you will like, okay, I'm understanding that I'm having this I will take some time off or I will like take a z of coffee. I don't know what do you have on your hands at that moment? But it does happen everywhere. Right? I wouldn't say that it does happen in an agency, probably in the agency. The thing is about the time that a little bit more like shorter. Right. but that will help you to in the future, like working on that time speed. That's crazy. Of course. But you get that, that that ability, you know, to like, yeah, okay. Delivering something really fast and not say on what doesn't matter for. Right. So yeah, I will say that.

Dianne: I like what you said, it actually kind of sparked in me. So I was like, in my experience agency, you get kind of burned out and you, you were like diving deep in a company, but you reminded me. So like, I actually did the reverse of you. I started off as a graphic designer in a corporate company and I work there for four and a half years. So kinda some idea. And then I jumped into an agency and it was definitely slower pace. I also wasn't doing product, I was doing graphic design. So it was a little bit different. But when you were like, you get burnt out cause you see the same thing every day. Like I know, like when I left I was like, I never ever want to use, I used to know it, the hex code of Lime Green ever again in my life. Like, I'm so tired of it. Or like the Gotham bot, like I'm so tired of looking at the Gotham bot and so that you start something I, there is like a level burnt out that is a little different when you work on the same thing in that same like, those specific details.

Yorbi: So Exactly. You have like a balance between the agency and between the, the product thing. Yeah. Or the company side. It's about like, it's about balancing that because on the agency you get to work with so many clients and so many different stuff and you won't, you won't get bored about what you're doing. Right. Probably in the company you won't get bored either. Right. But like the creativity is like really limited on the

Dianne: Side. Right. It's just different. It just, and it's, it's

Yorbi: Just different. Exactly.

Dianne: And yeah, I think like a recommendation I think kind of where you're helping me kind of discovers I think it really is, has been really useful in my career. And it sounds like in yours to have both of those experiences. Yes. I think that makes you a stronger designer overall and it also makes you understand like what you want and what you don't want, what you like, what

Yorbi: You don't like. Totally, totally. Totally.

Dianne: Yes. No, that's great. So, okay, so you were at La la Nazi on, you were working deep in a product, you got them switched a big my yay. And then you said you kinda made that jump to, to the bank. What was that? Why did you decide to do that?

Yorbi: Yes well, you know, I jump into as a product designer working with Figma and design Sy design systems, which is my core right now. Like okay, like design systems are my thing. Like I found my, my Heart in design system. I found them through Figma of course, but I found them when I was in the agency at the last year, last year in the agency where I got to, to open kind of like a small team of product inside of the agency where we were, where we were like selling the clients how to deliver a better product on that itself. So that's where I found out about design systems, about being, giving stuff easy to use to maintain, to for others to use because my clients are designers and developers. So I really found something right there.

I moved to as a product designer and I started creating the design system right there in LA because they didn't have that much, they had like 20 type of font or size. I was e size three type of blues. And so there were like very different things in LA and I was like, okay, we can do this. It's like, we can start really small with a little bit of budget. We can deliver something good for the team and that will impact on our clients. And that's how the sellout happened inside la. So I started working on the design system. One year later I got a call from Super Build about, hey, we're looking for a design system person. This is the first time. Because you know, in what in Latin America it's really new, the things about design systems companies are starting to use or to buy in that, that conversation or the idea of having that product inside of the company.

So I got this call from Superb Bank. We had to start from scratch, the design system there. And something really nice or clever about this challenge that I got to have was the fact that it wasn't just not create the design system from scratch, but also do a little bit of rebrand on the UI part of the, of the products. So it was, it started like a really good, it is a really good challenge right now. After one year and a half I do believe where we have a solid design system with a solid team that's using it and creating it. Something really good about this, this, this team that we have is that we, we don't only have the design on the u on the designer part, but also on the developer part. So maintaining that, it's like really good and giving that to the team, to our clients. It's really good because people like him can create more in more consistency, more efficiently more connected to each other. Yeah. Because somehow having the components or having the same sales, you can connect with other designers about the business that you're making.

Dianne: Yeah. I mean this is great. I didn't know that design systems, I guess, I guess it was in your LinkedIn, but, okay, now I have more questions. I think this is great. I think design systems are amazing. I definitely think what you said like about Lala am not being, I think that's everyone. I think there's so many companies that are just starting to see the light and appreciate if they invest the time and effort now that they're gonna save themselves so much time and effort in the future. And all the teams are just going to work so much better collaboratively. Kind of going back to our earlier conversation about working collaboratively. So that's amazing. So I, my question to you is like, say there's a designer listening that loves design systems and would like to maybe implement them in their company or kind of start that, what would your advice be to have give to them to be able to have those conversations with their teams?

Yorbi: Yes. That's awesome. And I will say like you can, to have a good selling about a design system, you can share the benefits of it. Okay. And sharing the benefits of that design system is really easy by creating something really small. As I, as I did in , you know, I started like, we can do this really small and really not on the daily schedules. like, we can do this on the side. Yeah. And that's, that's a good advice I could do. Like you can start really small and show the benefits of it. You can start on design. You can, you shouldn't start on on developer right away. You can start on the design team, on the three collaborators, five collaborators on your team. Like, hey, what if we do this bottom because the bottom is a basic one, but if we do this bottom and we start reusing it everywhere, and I will say like, start really small, show the benefits and that will be my advice. Yeah. Yeah. Because because this design system sells in itself, itself. Like it's really, of course companies are not like really good about the knowledge of it. And that's probably the hardest part of, of getting the adoption of the design systems. The people don't know how to use it or they don't know it does exist or what a design system is. You know, probably the people are not knowing about something.

Dianne: Yes. Right. If they know nothing and you're like, Hey, look what we can do. Exactly. Look at the capabilities. It's like exactly. You, like you said, it sells itself. Like there's really like nothing, no reason not to commit to at least a small,

Yorbi: A small part and you, and it will sell itself. Like, okay win at this because, because working without it, people start creating separately and at the end of the day, of course creating separately works, but it's, but it's more time and effort putting into something that can be shareable.

Dianne: Right. Okay, one of my last questions cause I'm curious. So I love design systems and I would like, I know that I wanna explore it further. I'm definitely not a design system expert. What is the biggest challenge you've had up to the state with design systems?

Yorbi: My biggest challenge with design systems, what's not it, but creating the habit on people to adopt it because of design system. Something that lists forever and it grows forever. It's, it's a product itself. Like you have to maintain it and you have to go into your clients and understand the feedback. What do they need? What do you need to make the design system better from my side so I can give you the tools to use it. That was, that is definitely the hardest challenge. The adoption. Yeah. Yeah.

Dianne: Totally. And that makes sense, especially like people that don't know the benefits, it's hard to change behaviors. It's like so hard to change behaviors. Yes.

Yorbi: But at the end of the day, it pay off seriously. Yeah. When people start using it and understand that it does help their daily, their daily basics they start up and it somehow, and like they do really want it. Probably the hardest part too is the developers because probably the design we have Figma, we can share stuff and it's easier to see, but in the developer bar it's harder probably because they do really work for all the, all the people that create as a developer really work more individually. Of course. Like that mindset is is changing right now with the collaboration and the streaming and stuff. But, but, but probably developers don't have a tool as we do as Figma, as designers, right? Yes. open source exists. I know, but

Dianne: Right.

Yorbi: It's not something that you can see or, or play because in FMA you can play, you can have High five and stuff.

Dianne: So yeah. Love the High five. That's a really great point is like, as us designers get more comfortable and developers start to see the benefits of Figma, I definitely think the developer side of, well we were talking about the collaboration, how we were like, oh, I don't wanna show you how I do things and now how it's kind of turning into this collaborative environment that it's definitely gonna start moving towards other parts of the process like development.

Yorbi: Yeah.

Dianne: Yeah. That's gonna be interesting to watch.

Yorbi: Yes, definitely.

Dianne: Well, awesome. Yeah, I I love talking about design systems. I could, I like wanna pick your brain more, but I, I won't right now. Okay,. So I guess like the kind of the final question that I usually ask is like, where do you see yourself going? Where do you see yourself in a year, in five years? What is your career trajectory from here?

Yorbi: Wow, that's nice. As I say like a really design system fan and I see myself creating or maintaining or building other design systems and helping each other and help other people, other teams to start creating theirs. Because I'm not really pro collaborated collaborator type of guy. So design systems kind of help you do that, do that. Some, some fun fact about, about this conversation is that design systems, the clients are the designers and the developers of course. So those clients are right next to you. So you can ask them questions, you can create a better product with your client next to you. Sometimes when you're creating something a, a product that is used by millions of users probably the user, it's really far from you, but a design system is something like really small and really intimate that you can ask questions and you can get feedback right away and you can improve right away. And that's something really nice about design system because your client is right next to you. Your, your designer or the designer that is using it is sitting in the right chair right next to you. That's nice. That's

Dianne: Yeah, that's interesting. Your design. Yeah. Your users are there, you can easily get access to them and can make the design system even better.

Yorbi: Exactly. Yes.

Dianne: I love that. Well said. So yeah, I am excited to follow your journey and everything that's gonna happen with design Systems in the future. So yeah, you'll be my first one to go to and I'm like, oh, what to do with design systems in Figma. Tell me all the things.

Yorbi: Of course. Just text me and I will tell you.

Dianne: Well thank you so much for your time, RBY. This was a really great conversation. I really enjoyed kind of learning about your background and I think it's gonna be really interesting for our listeners to get some tidbits on how to grow and maybe potentially start working on design systems in their own company. So thank you so much for your time.

Yorbi: Thank you so much for having me. This was a really good chat and I really love it. Thank you so much.

Dianne: Of course. We'll, we'll chat soon.. Yes.

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