#12 - Timothy Arrington - Design, Music, and How Different Passions Can Live Together

27 min read • Dianne Eberhardt

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,  Stitcher, Amazon Music, Google Podcasts, or on your favorite podcast platform. You can watch the interview on YouTube here.

In this episode of Pixelated Perfect, Timothy Arrington tells us about his career as a musician and a teacher, and how he started transitioning to the tech and design world. Professional careers can be unpredictable and inconsistent, but Timothy shows us that creativity and hard work can make two passions work together.

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Dianne: Hello everyone. Welcome to the Pixelated Perfect podcast. I am here with Timothy today. Super excited to chat. Timothy, I don't know too much about you as you kind of reached out. We scheduled really quickly and I'm super excited to have you on the podcast and to learn more about your design journey. So thank you so much for being here.

Timothy: Yeah, thanks for having me, Dianne.

Dianne: Of course, of course. So let's, let's get into it. I would love for you to tell me a little bit about kinda when you first discovered design and kind of where all of those steps you took and where are you today and what are you looking for as you kind of grow?

Timothy: Gotcha. Okay. So I'll move, I'll move around. I'll start where I am now. So I'm about four weeks out four weeks before I finish my current product design program. So that's really exciting. I initially went to the bootcamp with the intention of, I'm sorry, I initially went to the interest meeting with the intention of going into software engineering. And so we are maybe like 10 minutes into the orientation and they were like, Oh, you guys, you know, we actually, we have this other program called Product Design. It's super artsy. And as soon as I heard art you know, that really got my interest. So I went in and talked to a few people and they were like, yeah they have another seminar going on down the hall about product design. And after that I was sold just a combination of like and I'll get into my background of music as well, but I'm a musician.

The background of like psychology, like creativity the, just those two combined together and tech really, really sparked my interest. So that was late last year, so I've been doing the part-time program, but then I'll go way back. So I graduated in 2016 with a degree in music business. So I've been playing trumpet my entire life. Piano, I just recently, my my, the, my neighbor beneath me, he plays bass and actually started learning bass during a pandemic. But then kind of got sidetracked and I started back again a couple months ago cuz my, my downstairs neighbors, like he's has this thunders bass that he plays so . But I was like, it makes sense that I could just, I should just start lessons with him, you know. So graduated music business degree my wife and I, we moved to Atlanta with the, with the really every move has been a combination of both of us trying to figure out what space would work best for us.Atlanta with me was for music of course, and was there for a year. She got accepted into dental school at Howard University. And so we lived in DC for four years. While I was there I started teaching started in, started with the, with the babies. I was teaching three year olds for two years. And I was like, this is cool, but it's more so like a daycare. And I'm like, ah, I like wanna like teach older students. So I went and got my teacher's license and then I taught special education for two years. And then it's most recent year was my first year officially being like a music teacher in a school. Like I've always given private lessons mostly trumpet, little piano. But it's like my first like in school experience, which is really cool in the Bronx.So I've always, so one of my best friends, he's a I'm actually wearing one of his shirts. He he is a software engineer and in college we met in college. He studied computer science and we always talked about different things and I've always had the interest in it. He was like, Man, you have to learn a code, you have to learn a code, you have to learn a code. And it's something I've always been interested in and like, I'll like sign up for like a ute me or something and maybe do it for like a week and then stop and, you know, But yes, eventually really the pandemic really changed things for me, which for a a lot of us, I would imagine really just changed my perspective of like, I really like the flexibility of being able to work from home.And I was like, what is something that I could do to to to to do that? So what, what's a profession I can get into? And so that's your tech start calling my name where I was like, you know, has, I can have really good salary, lots of flexibility, still be really creative and and have fun. Still work on a team. So so yeah, I think that, well after I kind of skipped a little bit. Yeah. After my wife graduated from dental school, we moved up to we're in Manhattan now.So so yeah, she's in a residency program there, pediatric residency. So so yeah, we are doing our thing in New York and I'm about to graduate soon.

Dianne: That's exciting. Yeah, so many things I wanna ask about. That's, I love, I love interviewing career changers because I think it's really interesting to hear how kind of their past and things that they're passionate about also kind of weave their way into to product design. So I think there's definitely some spaces in education and in music that probably you can find some, some literaries. And so I wanna dive into that. So let's talk about, let's see, let's talk about I'm trying to think of the best place to start engineer, and then you headed into, ok, let's start here. Is you were, you've kind of been a teacher, you started off as a teacher and it was kind of like all of these things that you were thinking about. You talked about your best friend who's a software engineer, and that's kind of maybe where that got in your head for you to go to that engineering software engineer seminar and kind of switch. So when you decided to make that switch into more of the product design, you talked about like creativity, psychology, technology, but how much of that is influenced by maybe the, your background in maybe maybe music, which is a pretty creative field?

Timothy: Oh, a 1000%. 1000%. A really, So overall the, the draw to the software engineering and product design was like, I could be on my computer all day for the most part, you know, and that's something I'm used to doing, like the pandemic, I had some of, I made some of the best music of my life and it's kind of figured out just kinda like my flow because it's opposed to having to work a nine to five and then come home and go grocery shopping, cook, and then maybe have like an hour to work on music. I had like all day, you know? Right. And just getting used to that workflow and I realized with, with tech, I would be able to have a, a much similar experience at work. So oh, in the creativity aspect, I know software engineers are extremely creative as well, but product design just really spoke to me in a different way just because like, I immediately thought of like color theory and typography and just like those where I have a lot more autonomy over what's happening, you know, opposed to like receiving something at the end is like, I can put some, a lot of information on in the beginning to, you know, to get to a final product.

So, but it's, the product design switch was a thousand percent like influenced by my my experience in music. And it, I, the more I learned about product design, I realized how many parallels there are, you know, so like in working with clients, cuz all the, I am a musician, but I'm an audio engineer. I perform live, I'm music producer, I'm a composer. I was actually just working on something right before we started on the call. But in terms of like iterations in product design, I've had experience with that where it's like, I'll be working on something, you know, the client and I will have a conversation about what they would like, and then I'll work on for something where they're for hours, weeks, days, turn it into them. They're like, ah, I, you know, it could be something that I missed. Or sometimes it's something they didn't mention at all. It's like they, Right. You know, just having, just having that, that back and forth where I'm just constantly like iterating. And then, you know, the beautiful part about music is you can do all of that and the song doesn't come out, you know, so

Dianne: It's Right. Which could also be for design too, right? Like you work on something and maybe then you go into testing and they're like, Oh wait, this isn't, it didn't get the results you were looking for. Let's go back to the drawing board. So that's actually, that's interesting. Yeah. Like the iterations.

Timothy: Yes. Lots of iterations. Lots of patience in that process because it, it's, it's really about finding that balance, again with the design to find that balance between, okay, I am receiving this information from you and I want to make the best product for you, but I also have, you know, you coming to me because I specialize in this and so I'm gonna put my input into it and what I think should be best. And just finding that balance between, you know, them trusting me with their ideas and me trusting them with kinda like letting me get the job done. Yeah. So it's just like it's so many parallels where like I knew the more I learned it was really like, it was, it's five phases in the program. I mean, like in the middle of phase one, I was like, Okay, this is, this is it. It's really the same thing. Just kind of like a slightly different medium in a way.

Dianne: Yeah. Okay. I'm gonna dive into this deeper just cause I think it's interesting, like the music parallel. So say you're a composer or you're coming up with, you're collaborating with another artist like what is that, how, what is the similarity between maybe what information you ask or need from the person you're collaborating with on a, in a music standpoint versus maybe collaborating or working with a client? Are there any similarities there?

Timothy: Lots of similarities. And it, and it, it varies client to client because one client could be like my friend that, you know, we're just in the studio together or we're in my living room making music to where it's like, there isn't any conversation. It's kinda like, Hey man, let's just make something. And we start making things and then we'll go a specific direction. There are other times where I'll have a client and they may come in they might have just gotten into an argument with their boyfriend or they might have just gotten proposed to, or something that's kind of like, that energy just leads. It might not necessarily be a conversation. I could just be overhearing what they, the conversation they just had and then take that energy into a song. And then there are other things with more so with like sync licensing and composing to where I'll have a one to two hour zoom with like all stakeholders where it's like the producers and just everyone involved and just talking about the entire scope of the project. You know, we have all of these references, all of these, you know just kinda like showing me like a mood board of what everything gets really, really specific. So it's really, it's a, it's a, it's a combination of things. I personally, I like having a, it's like a beautiful mix between like constraints. Like, I like to say, Okay, I want to make this type of song, but I like to also have a lot of freedom within that to kind of make my version of it, you know?

Dianne: Right. And that's, I mean, I think that does parallel with design is like, you have a customer and you're like, Okay, what are the problems we're solving for? And you, you're gathering that data, right? Like there's, there's concrete guidelines there as far as what information you're solving for it, probably you're solving for, but then giving you the creative freedom to like, explore options and ideas and come up with different concepts to kind of pitch to, to clients. Exactly. So I can totally see that kind of similarities there.

Timothy: And I will say that although it can make things a little stressful I do enjoy having a deadline and working with clients because when I'm working on my own music, it's kinda like, I'll tinker here, tinker there, tinker, and it's just like forever, you know? But having a deadline is kind of, okay, I have, you have to finish by this point. You know, So it's kinda like you just have, you just kind of lead with your intuition and go with your gut, Okay, this is the best decision. Get those broad strokes out the way and you know, kind of tinker up into the deadline. But for my stuff, I could like tinker for like years, you

Dianne: Know, it's like, yeah. You know? Yeah. I think that's interesting. That actually kind of reminds me of at the design project we, we kind of time box ourselves. So like for instance, if we're pulling inspiration, like you could literally spend hours and hours pulling inspiration from everywhere, right? But our customers move quickly and they, we have a timeline set, so we time box ourselves, they're like, okay, let's, we're gonna give ourselves two hours and we're gonna come up with inspo that we can send to our customers that we feel confident in. And I think that's kinda what you were saying, it's like having those deadlines and those constraints, because really hopeful, of course, you could spend forever, but it's dependent on a lot of other factors.

Timothy: Exactly. Exactly.

Dianne: I love that. So I, I wanna ask about the bootcamp. So you said you're, you're getting close to graduating, which is super, super exciting. Yes. Yes. How has that, how has that process been? Like, what is the maybe the most surprising learning that's come out of, of bootcamp?

Timothy: It's a good question. Surprising learning. It's a couple of things. I'll kinda reiterate. One of the things I, I, I was led to it, I think just kind of through intuition just because of the creativity and the parallels that it has with my previous experience, especially with teaching as well is because of, like, I've taught primarily in Washington, DC and then in the Bronx. And so I'm originally from North Carolina, so of course, I mean, we were all kids. So like, I have, I can empathize with my students, like, okay, I was a kid too, but also there was a, a big learning curve for me because I'm from, not really, I'm from Durham, it's not really rural, but it's, it's not dc it's not the roots.

It was a lot that my students were experiencing and just like their point of view and worldview was totally different from mine in a lot of cases to where it's like they're dealing with something outside of class and bring it into the class. I'm trying to, you know, talk them through it. And it's like, they kind of realize, I have no idea that what they're talking about . It's like, I realize they're like, I have no idea. It's like, this is, I would do, but you know, your reality is as a kid is totally different than mine was. But I, I eventually learned how to really just learning more about the community learning, talking with parents more, talking into my coworkers about just different things that may have happened in the community both positive and sometimes negative that students remember, or there's their older siblings might have experienced that.Their, you know, it kind of, they bring that into the classroom. So really empathy was kind of like, I would say my five years of teaching, like empathy. And that's the parallel of design too. That's like one of the biggest parts of design Yeah. Is when you empathize with clients. So I would say that's one of the learning like surprises, I guess you'd say. It's just realizing how many parallel, like I came in thinking like, this is the tech world and it's so far over here from what I've been doing, but I realized that I'm actually been developing a lot of the skills that are needed. It's really just a matter of learning the technical side of things. But in terms of, you know, just the design thinking and even like a lesson plan that's really a usability test. When I think about it, it's kind of like I, I have a, a goal I take data like maybe previous test scores from a year before or just a week before, and I'm like, Okay, we need to get, we need to, we have a, you have another goal to get to.We have a problem rather have the test scores a data, then we have a goal that we need to get to. And then like, each day is like a usability test, like in real time, because some lesson plans hit, and then some of them are just, it's like, it could just go out the window. And that is a, it's a lot of different factors that could contribute to that. It could be, it's not always academic. Sometimes it's just, it might be Friday. The kids are like, Hey, it's not time to learn and think new today we're going to just have some fun. So I'm like, All right, let's go to the playground. So it's like, right. So just realizing that it's, it's so many parallels between so many different disciplines. It's just a matter of like how you kind of zone in into it. I would say that was kinda like the biggest surprises I would say, Well, you didn't ask me this. I guess we'll get into like challenges cuz I was, I was about to mention a challenge, but

Dianne: Let's do challenge. I mean, yeah, I love empathy. That's like, that's really interesting. I think a lot of people have empathy from previous jobs, but I'm especially like empathy, dealing with like children and learning how to relate to them. Like that's a level I personally have never experienced. I'm sure that's like very interesting and probably a lot of those insights that you gathered you can take into empathizing with customers on a different level or users on a different level because of those skills that you've learned Absolutely. For children. That's really fascinating. Absolutely. well, yeah, let's go into challenges. What, what's kind of some of the biggest challenges from boot camp?

Timothy: There's a couple. One I think it was in the second or third phase that I was in was, and it's crazy because I, I, I came into tech with the intentional of doing software engineering, but the coding, the coding, just like, it was like I was getting so deep into like, we're in the color theory and we're learning all these things about personas and all these different things, and then it's like a heavy dose of coding. And I was like, man, I was not expecting this at all. And it, it took me a while. It actually, that was probably the most challenging part just because it's literally a different language. You know, it's a different language. Balancing that and just balancing the product design classes and a nine to five and working on music, it was pretty crazy. But then it's kind of like the coding just took things to like another level because it's like it, it, it was, it was just really challenging.

But I talked to my advisors and just did all the extra study hours and it, the crazy thing about it is that I cannot wait to finish because I want to learn even more about coding. Because like, once I got it, once I got it, I'm like, Oh, this, I know there's a lot more to learn. But once I kind of got those core principles, I was like, Oh, this is not that difficult. You just gotta kind of know how to move things, you know, and just learn those like basic principles and then trial and error, you just keep, you keep growing from there. But that was that one that, that was tough. That was, that was the phase that took the longest for me. Yeah.

Dianne: But that's funny because of your first interest in going into engineering.

Timothy: Right? Right.

Dianne: And that's something like, I, I as a designer, so I've been, I'm a product designer. I've been designing for like 10, 15 years. Like I was designing before product design was a thing. So I think one thing that I've never touched is really coding. And that's something that I've always kind of shied away from or I was like, No, I'm a designer, like numbers coding isn't my thing. And so I think that's an amazing skill set to have, especially today as you kind of transition. Product designers are doing many different things. And I think my question to you is like, I'm not sure if you've had a chance to work on this yet, but designing and then handing off designs to a team of developers and the insights that you have by knowing how to code in that little bit is probably really useful for you to be able to communicate with the depths. Absolutely. Have you had a chance to dive into that yet?

Timothy: And I'm, I'm really excited to do that. One of the reasons cuz in Figma, I forgot what you pressed, but you can kind of see like the code on the side. Yes. So just to kind of see again kinda like going back to the music it's a, it is a collaborative effort. You know, I might have this great idea. I'm like, this has to be in there, but the, the engineers are like, There is no way that'll work man. Like, you know, and just finding that happy balance, but that compromise, you know, because really the, ultimately the user or in music, the song is the most important, you know, how I feel about it, how you feel about it is like, we wanna make a great song, we wanna make a great product. You know, and how can we mix and match our ideas? And then what's also possible to like, to make it come to fruition. So definitely. Yeah.

Dianne: Yeah. I'm excited for you to explore that. I think by having this knowledge of coding, it's really gonna help you understand and be able to speak their language and collaborate so that you can make sure what you're designing is actually translating correctly. Because that is a lot of problems that designers have is sometimes they work in silos. They're like, Oh, this is this amazing idea. And engineers are like, No, no, not at all. It's, no, it's not possible. Yeah. So I, I love that. I, I'm, I'm excited for you to kind go to that next step absolutely. With kinda some of those coding skills you've learned. What else? Are there any other like, challenges that were maybe unexpected

Timothy: Yes. there's one more I definitely wanted to mention. So as I mentioned before, my wife, she's in a residency now, she's in a pediatric residency now mm-hmm. , but before she was in a general residency for a year. And so that was at the, she finished that in July. And so you know, she was looking for positions, looking to apply for peds and different things. And, you know it just worked out that she found a really great position in Hartford, Connecticut. And so we were like, Okay, that's what we have. So let's, let's pack everything up and move. And so I resigned for my position and I was like, Okay, we're gonna go. Cause I was doing I was doing my classes part-time, then I was like, Okay, I'll do it full-time until I can find a remote position.

And so we moved and little, so we moved on a Saturday. She came home on a Monday. We were about to get dinner for Pat and everything. She gets a phone call. Long story short, the program that she applied for that she didn't get into, they were like, Hey, in in the Bronx, they were like, Hey are you available to come back? We need you on Monday. She was like, Like this upcoming Monday. They're like, Yeah, is it possible you can get here Monday? And when we were like, Yeah, we need to get here on Monday. So then we, the great thing is I only unpacked maybe like 30% of our things, but then we just had to pack it back up. Drive, this was about two months ago two, three months ago, packed back up. And the great thing is we were really stressing out because we were, like, when we moved to New York it was right after the pandemic and there were so many deals on apartments. So we got a really great rate, a great rate, but

Dianne: And yes, right

Timothy: So we were looking at apartments cuz we had, you know, of course we ended our lease here. And so we were looking for apartments and everything was like six to seven, almost like a thousand dollars more than what we were used to paying. It was like, Oh my goodness man, this is crazy. Yeah, you and at that time I was unemployed so it's like, it was really, really crazy. But we actually, it worked out that we were able to get our same apartment at the same rate. So we moved back in.

Dianne: Oh, amazing.

Timothy: Of course, on the day of the move, it was a torrential downpour, so it was

You know, of course it'll work that way. But but yeah, so we're back. We're excited to be in the city to continue to explore. But that was a crazy week where it was like just I had the mental switch of moving from New York to Connecticut and think, okay, whatever I gonna find, cuz you know, even though I plan on working remotely or like a hybrid, I'm like, I would definitely love to be in the city. Yeah. Opposed to kinda like being four hours, two to three hours away Right. And trying to, you know, get a job in the city. So, so I had to have a mindset shift about, okay, how's it gonna work in Hartford? And now I'm back here now. So it's like, it was, it was a, it was a blessing really. It was a blessing. It was crazy, but it was a blessing. And it did put a, it put me back a little bit with my studies just because like the packing and moving before to unpacking to packing again and moving. So

Dianne: Oh my gosh.

Timothy: It was good. We're, we're here. We're happy. So it's all good.

Dianne: Yeah, I mean I think what's kind of interesting about this conversation is like personal life or other factors that are happening in the background and like highs and lows and like your wife gets all these great opportunities or she doesn't and then you move and then she does. And it's like all of those emotions going into you studying and working and everything like that. And I think that is like a big part of, I mean I guess it kind of goes back to empathy. I don't know, it's like mind shift changes and like understanding how people are relating or understanding why sometimes people are more engaged or less engaged. Cuz there's so many things happening in the background of everything that we're doing in the design space.

Timothy: Absolutely. Absolutely. And just finding that balance between, you know, you have your work life, you have your home life, you have your social, it's so many different things that are kind of, you know, humans were very complex, you know? Yes. . So you just have to balance, it's a balancing act, you know?

Dianne: Yeah. And like being gentle with yourself, it's like you were like, Oh, I had a bunch of mind shift changes and like, it all worked out, but it was tough at the time. So I'm sure that was like you just making sure you were in the right space. Absolutely. And figuring out how to get there, I guess.

Timothy: Absolutely.

Dianne: Well so let's talk about, I wanna go back to what's gonna happen after bootcamp, but I wanna make sure we talk about the, which we, I guess we kinda talked about a little bit with empathy, but some of the similarities between teaching and design. Is there anything else, like outside of empathy that you can think about that, Well, I guess we talked about planning, like

Timothy: Yeah, like definitely I definitely us, well I mentioned before, but lesson plans are yes, usability tests, which are really cool to think about. Cuz it's, it's a constant, constant iteration. You know, we, I have a goal, you know, let's say I'm trying to teach my first grade classes how to read music. It's kinda like there some, which is, it was so cool cuz you had some students who came in without any formal training and they would just get it. And then where it's like they still don't have it, it's kinda like figuring out, you know, there's a behavioral management perspective to that as well to where it's like, okay, those that get it, some of them they're really bored. So it's like, okay, what can I put into the plans that are gonna like, keep them interested I'm doing like, remediation for this group over here and just kind of find that balancing act. So I really, really had to lean on cuz my first music teacher posi my first position as a music teachers really, really had to lean on my supervisors and then my other, the other specialist teachers like the theater and gym teachers about like, God, what do you do in this situation? And just really leaning and leaning on just really every, anybody I could get a hand

Figure this out because it's a, it's a really delicate profession just because it's like you're dealing with young minds like in a lot of them. Right. You know, and they have their own backgrounds they're coming into. It's, I, a big thing I learned is it's so much bigger than teaching. It's kind of like that's, or teaching content rather, it's more so it's like you're like, students are with you more than they're with their parents, you know, it's like they leave you crazy and they're like, they go home for maybe like five hours and they're awake. They're they e you know what I mean? It's kinda like you're with them, It's like you're like a third parent or second parent a lot of times. Right. so yeah, it, it was, it was a constant just kinda like evolution of how do I make these things work in just constant iterations of like behavior management and different things and teamwork, collaboration and just being able to trust that I had teammates that can like sometimes like something some crazy things that happen in Collabo, I have to literally call people like, Yo, can you please with help me with this because I don't want anyone get hurt and different things.So collaboration was a, a big part of it. Teamwork

Dianne: For sure. Yeah. No, I love that. Yeah, and I mean, I think that definitely relates to design in the sense that like something we say at the design project is like, it's really important to have other people, other designers to bounce ideas off of, to brainstorm, to come up with the best options because working in a silo is, is a lonely space. And I think the best work is really created collaborating with other designers, but also project managers and founders and

Timothy: Exactly.

Dianne: Everyone else that's involved in building something. So I think that's yeah, like super, super aligned with kind of what yeah. Product design will offer

Timothy: For sure.

Dianne: Cool. So let's, so your bootcamp kind of finishing off, what have you been working on? Is it like, are you coming up with case studies? Are you building your portfolio? What are kind of these last few weeks devoted to

Timothy: Precisely that? The assignment I'm working on now is a case study on one of my favorite project is, which happened to be a it, I created in an app that especially a private school database, so it's to help parents that are really, any parent is looking to enroll their kids in a private school, but especially those that are transitioning from public schools to private schools. So it's development of case study on that. And just kind of, I actually just kind of going through different designers out. There's a designer Ian's name in his last name starts with the s he's the head of Instagram now. He used to be the head of design and Instagram just kind of looking at, at different resources on the internet about not just case studies, but just kind of like design thinking. So it's like, although I'm working on one specific thing, I wanna make sure that I'm looking at it from a broad point of view because I think ultimately I definitely want to, you know, get my technical chops up and, and really learn like the nitty gritty of UX UI and creating interface interfaces. But ultimately you know, long term I want to, I might just be like, I, like with Ian how he's now like the head of design of Japan where, well, he's the head of Instagram in Japan, this. But I think like there's so much room in with product designers to be like CEOs and to be, because we are literally creating the product for for users and for, for the people. So I really like his story and just other designers that, you know, you have to start off and learn, you know, like with the music terminology, like you have to learn how to play the guitar before you can kinda like revolutionize and like start, you know, it's kind of like I look forward to, to expanding my skill set and learning all of the pieces to it. But also it's getting the inspiration from others. See like there is so many different avenues to go. So not sure how that connects to my case study, but

Dianne: No, I like to like went with it. It was, it was great. No, yeah. Working

Timothy: Case study now to build my portfolio.

Dianne: Yes, yes. No, I mean, I, I like what you just said is like, there's so many pot, there's so much potential for a product designer and I think like a lot of junior designers coming outta boot camp, they're like told like, okay, like you're gonna continue to work on your skills. I think a big part of it is like working on your communication skills and how you relate to people and like those soft skills are really important to have as you kind of move into design. So it's like being able to communicate your design decisions in a way that everyone can understand and to be able to feel really confident in the decisions that you're pushing and making. And that's like a skill all on its own. So I do think those hard skills are like, those like immediate needs. Like, hey, I need to be really great at Figma. I need to know how to build components. I need to know how color theory, I need to know all of these. And then like starting to get more, feel more confident as you work on more projects and to communication and theory and design and Oh for sure. Best practices and all of that stuff. And then it can translate into so many things like you said, like you could be a ceo, you could be head of product, you could be an influencer that's teaching design best practices. Yes. Like, there's so many ways to go. So I think that's, that's really great and I think that's, that's awesome. So I'm excited to kind of follow along with your journey as you kind of build these case studies. So I guess kind of one of my last points I would like to hear is like, where are you going from here? Like do you have an idea of the types of companies you wanna work for? Are you thinking of kind of maybe taking on freelance while you continue to teach? Like what, what is next steps for you?

Timothy: Next steps definitely. It's kinda like two, two routes I guess you'd say, but kinda like in the same, the same direction. So I would definitely love to work for like a music tech company, like a Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube, Apple Music just to bridge, even though I wouldn't necessarily be like creating music for them. I think just my love and passion for music would definitely be like the a great motivator, you know, when I'm working with UX and ui. Yeah. And the other route I would love to work for agency too, just because it's like I would have a lot of different projects that I'd be able to work on. So it was really those two that I'm looking at like music tech or an agency. Yeah, that's, yeah, I would say those two for sure. Yeah.

Dianne: So you're gonna finish your portfolio, you're gonna graduate boot camp and then you're just gonna start applying and looking for kind of those, those jobs, those junior designer positions.

Timothy: Absolutely. Like at this point I'm just connecting with different designers and senior designers on LinkedIn. Just to kind of see, you know, in my head I'm like, yeah, Spotify would be amazing, but it's kind of like, I want to make sure that it would be the right fit and I'm, it's not like romanticizing the idea of it. So I would say like these past two weeks I really took a deep dive into LinkedIn just really talking to people. Love that, that work at the company just to see what is, what is your day today, you know, what, what have you been your biggest challenges? Especially those, I, I really like talking to those that came from a boot camp as well. Cuz I see this kind of like, it's a lot of different routes into product design, but I've seen a lot of people that start in the graphic design and then I even the it was like interaction design for a while before it became like ux ui. So looking at those that came from boot camps and just seeing what was their experience with the job, job search process and you know, how did you get to Amazon, how did you get to Spotify or your design agency. So yeah, just networking and just, just figuring, trying to figure it all out.

Dianne: Yeah. No, I love that. I think that's a great course of action. I mean, doing podcasts like this, like we're gonna share it and like everyone Anthony's looking for a job, or sorry, Timothy's looking for a job. So if you guys have a job for him, listen. So I think by networking and everything you're doing is really awesome and we're gonna kind of push and let's see if we can get you something on LinkedIn as we share

Timothy: Yes, yes, yes. More about, I definitely appreciate that

Dianne: You Of course, course. Well, no, this was really great. I really loved kind of hearing your kind of your summary and how you related to design from kind of teaching and music and all of these other places. That was really, really great. And I enjoyed learning more about you and I'm excited to follow along with your journey and see what's next after graduation. So that's very exciting. Thank you so much for, for joining us and talking about your, your design journey so far.

Timothy: Absolutely. Dianne, thank you for having me. It was a, it was a pleasure for sure. Thanks.

Dianne: Perfect. Okay, well we'll chat soon. Thank you. Okay.

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