#19 - Olamide Alowooja - Designing at One of the Biggest Crypto Companies in Africa

27 min read • Dianne Eberhardt

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Dianne: Hello everyone. Welcome to the Pixelated Perfect podcast. I am excited for you guys to meet Olamide. He is a designer for Nigeria and he's doing so many things, so I'm really excited to dive in. To give a quick intro, he is a UI/UX designer at Coin Mara, which is an African leading crypto company. He's also a senior product designer at Toptal which is basically connecting elite designers with Fortune 500 companies. And he's a co-founder of Virtual Core Creative where he's basically been leading product and design and is a design manager as well. So I'm really excited to talk to him and learn more about how he got from the beginning to do so many things in design. So thank you so much for being here. Yeah,

Olamide: Thank you very much Jan for inviting me on the program. And it's an honor to join you UK right now. Thank you very much.

Dianne: Of course. Okay, so, so let's get into it. So tell me, when did design come into your life? Wow.

Olamide: Okay. My story is a bit long well design started when I was in the university. So I started computer engineering about few years ago. So while I was in the university, I got to start with programming development actually. But I had a lot of friends who were actually into development and I was trying to look for a niche for myself. So later on where we started development, I actually have AFL for working on how the aesthetic of the product will look like the software we're going to build. So from there most of my friends says, okay, don't work on the backend or the frontend design, just work on the design of how this product is gonna look like. So ever since then I started getting even gigs on saying, okay, please work on this particular product or perhaps this design. Cause I also ventured into branding graphics before I actually fully focus on product design basically ever since university. And when I graduated from university, I decided to just stay full of focus on product design until now. I keep exploring for that and for that too as everything unfolds.

Dianne: Yeah. okay, great. So I have some questions for you. So I think that's really interesting that, so you, your degree was in computer engineering, that's what you were studying, but all of your friends and they just like saw this, like this design in you and everything you were working on. You just kind of like went to design. So how did you kind of pick up that skillset? Was it literally you just like playing around and you're just like a creative person and it just happened, it just kind of fell into your,

Olamide: Okay. So for me, for me, it's a skill that just fell into my lab. Cause I wasn't planning to be a designer visually. So I just like my, and every other friend wants to become a, a developer. I want to code and do all those. But since a lot of people were saying, well, we love your design, we love everything, can you please do more of this? So I started getting more walks in that line and I started saying a future in need. So I started saying, okay, what can I do to actually progress in this particular phase since it's quite interesting for me to actually work on designs also. So I just kept learning for that into it. Even when I started design, I mentioned ADO earlier I love doing using ADO packages majorly food to show up effects and others. So I just kept exploring different softwares and that was the way it just kept evolving with time. But I just love design to, I, I fell in love with it completely and since then I just keep pushing forward.

Dianne: I love that, I love that. So you also kind of mentioned you started playing around a little in branding and motion design, but yes. You just were like, ui ux design is my calling. So what was that process for you to make that decision?

Olamide: You know, in Nigeria although we don't have, when I started product design as at that time, we don't have much product designers here. Everyone is a graphic designer that is the most common job here. So later on, about four years or five years back, I noticed because then I started product design using Photoshop. Don't laugh at that. So

Dianne:Me too. Me too. It, I'm so glad we've come far from there, but I totally get it.

Olamide: So I started with Photoshop, just trying to just design the interface using Photoshop to just create ideas and stuff. Then later on it was quite restricting. So I started search for that and that was was when I got to the about Sketch and others, they using Sketch was quite limited for us here because we're developed countries and not everyone has MacBook. So I couldn't use the software, so, but when Figma came about that actually gave me more interest into it and I just keep pushing for that. And that actually blew my mind when I saw the amount of things I can achieve using Figma and other related software. So when I saw, I came to evolve in, so I just keep pushing for that in that particular line and it has been amazing so far.

Dianne: That's awesome. Okay, one more question before you move on, cuz I'm just curious. So you've said about like in Nigeria, like no one had, like, it was harder to sketch because of the program and Figma has really allowed you to dive deep into design because you can, I guess because you can just share Figma in a different way. Is that right? Yes. So like every, is are all product designers using Figma now?

Olamide: Oh, yeah. So in Nigeria you know, compared to other developed countries, sketch is quite expensive to afford down here. So so most of the time, although there's quite a number of people who actually use Cage, the Figma Awards came out as a let me say an open source, whether you can use it almost totally free. So, which actually gave more interest to designers because having a free software to use and even the collaborative features anywhere by, you don't have to use any software, just open your browser and you jump into the product. So that actually made us actually an employee into it and actually venture into it much better. So that is majorly heated with

Dianne: Yeah, no, that's awesome. I mean, fig, I, I've talked about this on the podcast before. I love Figma. I was like an early adopter of Figma and like, oh my gosh, it's everything to me. So I, it's so great. Every time I have conversations about Figma, it's so great to hear how Figma has affected like the world. It's really, really interesting and I, I love it so much. So shout out to Figma Okay, so let's keep moving. So what did you do after this, after you were like, product design is my niche, that's where I wanna go.

Olamide: Okay. so for me when I started seeing product design as a partal in my career line so it wasn't that easy for me to start out because when I started put design branding and motion graphics, it's quite easy because you see a lot of resources online, on YouTube, go anywhere on Google. You see a lot of resources. The product design is not something, when I started I couldn't see a lot of resources because Figma was just coming out that the only thing you get to see is how to use Figma. But I don't really know the fundamentals like we have right now, whether we have the Google UX Foundation costs almost totally free. You have a lot of courses on Hi and others. When I started, I don't have enough resources like that, which made it quite difficult for me to actually go up the ladder when going to product design.

The due to the difficulties actually faced, I decided that when I'm actually be good enough, I decided to be sharing my knowledge with people that are close to me. That is when I actually found out about ADP List which I've been able to mentor quite a number of people in Nigeria and outside Nigeria. And it's very fulfilling to be able to contribute to the design community as a old using the platform. And I also use other platform to actually contribute Telegram and other one to just reach out to people and just help them, guide them through the process in order to achieve that particular goal in life.

Dianne: That's awesome. Yeah, I mean, yeah, we've definitely talked about a d p list on the podcast before, but it is truly amazing and that's really great that, like you probably had a lot of trial and error in those early stages Yeah. While you were figuring it out. And so you can take all of that knowledge and share it with, with others in your community and the world. So like, that's, that's really, really interesting. Question, what, what do you think is the, the number one problem designers face in Nigeria? What, when you are mentoring these new designers in Ad p list, what's the number one challenge that they talk about

Olamide: For developing countries? Nigeria for example, and I met quite a number from people from India also because we almost have the same relation of the same issues we face. For starting out as a des as a designer talking about product design right now getting resources is now much easier, which is actually very good. So you getting access resources now we have too many resources for you that you exactly know what to pick, you get it. That is the first issue I noticed. Most people who are, are trying to launch you to product design really phase. So what I just do is just point them across, okay, you can go through this course and this one, this should be enough for you to start out. Then you can do this until next in order for you to move further.

So the major one that actually accompanies that is after you blind everything, so what next is for you to get a job? So in Nigeria we have a lot of designers, they're very small companies who really appreciate product design because some companies right now still don't know what product design is or what UX research and every other thing is. So if you are to, some companies will employ you as a designer. Cause actually got to speak with a few entry level designers. So by outside they got into the company, they're employed as a u ui UX designer, but they end up doing graphic design jobs on social media because the companies don't even know the value of what they're actually employing these people for. So till now we still, the, the clarity in that particular field is not so vast, even though we have quite number companies who know about these, but yet getting jobs in this line is still very minimal.And a lot of the way they pay Africans generally or down here it's very so most compared to other countries is very small. So most people want to get foreign jobs so that they can get better pay. So, which is very limited because they don't really get that offer. And so majorly that is main team we face. Our number one is streamline the le the lines of resources for you to learn. And number two is getting job after you are done with all your learnings. So that, those are the two major difficulties most entry level designers fees in Nigeria.

Dianne: Yeah, yeah, I mean that's, you know, that's the challenge everywhere too. I feel like when I talk to junior designers, they're still like, they're like, yeah, like overwhelmed with resources too. So it's like how do you find or tell them the best resources? So do you have resources that you recommend? Like do you have like a package or like courses that you're like, Hey, this is a great course, I recommend this, or do you kind of just like, depending on the person

Olamide: Mo most times before the era or before the coming out of Google UX foundational course it was quite challenging to get resources for for designers. So, but cause I had to google quite a number and just have a list of chunks of videos to watch on hidden me on course and every other thing. So, which is quite stressful for me because after I've gone through two different courses, the tutor will say two different things, So most of it doesn't really co I'm not actually in synergy, so, which is a lot of difficult, which co cause for a lot of, cause we, I have to explain over and over to most of them, but since I found Google UX foundational co UX foundational course, it's actually encompass everything from scratch that they need to know. So most designers I find right now, immediately you just continue and say, okay, what resource do you need to start with? Just pick this because everything you need to start out is well escalated there. So the first thing I give to them, take that when you're done, then I'm going to put you to what next you need to do. So for now that is the best choice for me, that is the best resource for now.

Dianne: Yeah, that's a great recommendation. I think for all those designers out there looking to get started, yeah, definitely check out the ux, Google Foundations. I mean it's what could go wrong, it's Google, right? Soit sounds like they probably have a little bit of everything in there. Yeah, no, that's great. So, so what was your process of getting your first shop? Like, kind of talking about the challenge that a lot of junior designers face

Olamide: For, for me yes. Just like every other designer, it's not as okay, well lemme say it's a bit easier for me to get job then than now because at that time we don't have much product designers, unlike now where there is thousands of product designers without jobs. So when I started out, I started as a graphic designer, which is quite easy. They when I piloted into product design fully fully, they were lot of jobs, the little professionals to undo the job. So it was a little bit quite easy for me, but looking for the job wasn't in code that easy also. So how how I was able to actually find a, my first job in it was using of LinkedIn. Mm-Hmm . So LinkedIn is the major source. Lemme say about 70% or let's say 60% of every job I've ever done was gotten through LinkedIn anyway.

So and entire is actually true reaching out to people. Perhaps I say a company I would love to work with, I just reach out to someone in the company, I just chat with them and stuff like that. And people are quite willing to give you a shot at that time because you don't have too many professionals. So it was quite easy at that time. So we just reach out to one or two, they get to get a shot with one of them. So it, it's easy for me then, but compared to now, it's not that easy. But I guess it's still a very good platform for you to actually reach out and get a chance to actually get reco get to work with

Dianne: Companies. Yeah, I think that's amazing advice for Junior Jones, just like find a company that you are passionate about and reach out to them versus just applying to jobs because everyone's applying to jobs. But if you really reach out to them and send a message to them and tell them like personally what you like about them instead of just going through the traditional applying route, that, that makes such a big difference. And so that's a great, that's a great recommendation. Yeah,

Olamide: So, so, so I, I had to even do something whereby for every designers I got to meet or need the police, I make sure after you've been able to go through the basic courses and things and just when during the mental mentorship session, I make sure that at least a week or so is dedicated to even teaching them how to even use LinkedIn very well because quite a number of people just see it as a boring social platform compared to what you see on TikTok and what you see on Instagram. So talking to generally Gen Z most most times they don't really fancy using LinkedIn. They, because of the value they want to get I had to just encourage them, oh these how you set up your profile, these how you reach out to people. And so that they, it has really turned out very great for most of them that after introducing it to them, they end up loving it even more than I actually am researchbecause so Lin has been a very great platform to actually help a lot of people right now because apart from you even getting the jobs, you get to learn in love from other designers out there from different countries.

They post resources and others. So it's not just about looking for jobs and connecting jobs for the job sake, but it's actually a very good platform for you to even learn from others too.

Dianne: Yes. Oh my gosh. Well said. I totally agree. It's, it's not as fun maybe as some of them for sure, but it's a great way to make connections and that is truly, I will say also like my career and my jobs and my connections and everything that I do now is on LinkedIn and that is how I formed so many of these connections. So it, it really is valuable. So I I completely agree. So great, great advice. So what is what was that first job you got? Were you, you said you were kind, you were graphic design and then you kind of transitioned. So how was, how were you able to jump into a product design job with kind of you learning on your own and starting at graphic design? How did you know how to, how to work as a product designer?

Olamide: Okay, so, so where we when I started it was all try and error because I wasn't so sure what is expected of me. I had to do a lot of Google responsibilities of a product designer respons. So you just keep googling everything to just see what you're gonna do. And luckily for me, or lemme say I don't say unlikely for me, I got to go my first set of jobs we got in Nigeria whereby most of these people, people don't even know much about what a product designer really does. But because the seamless companies employ people in this particular department as a designer, they just want to get someone like that. So so I have to be the one to educate the company whereby I don't have anyone to look up to. I have to be the one to learn everything and say, educate this as, okay, this is what I'm going to do, this is what I'm going to give to the companies and stuff like that.

So mine was a bit rocky to start with. So I have to be the one to teach myself. I am the senior designer, I'm the junior designer, the whole companybecause I'm the only designer, the only product designer. So it was very difficult for me to start out because I have to teach myself everything and also the stakeholders to understand what exactly I need to be. I'm delivering to the company. So so mine was a bit okay, so, but right now I guess it's much easier because you have most companies aren't ATIs get like two or three product designer. You have a senior designer to guide you all through the process and how you work and everything. So that's it. The hope I missed track of the question you asked.

Dianne: That's, I mean that's crazy that like you kind of went in and like had to educate yourself. I think that says a lot about you as a person, like taking on this role of educating yourself and then feeling confident enough to like lead and express. Why was your company pretty understanding? Were they like Yeah, like we trust you or were they like, oh, we don't know

Olamide: Okay. Yeah. So yeah so the four set of jobs I got lemme mention that where basically lemme call it geeks whereby it's for contract jobs, uhhuh cause most, most of these companies don't really encode fancy product design has been onboarded as a full staff. So they'll just get it to work on the particular feature of their product and send you off. They get it. So they exploring and working on different, working with different company help me to learn for that in time. So that's what actually build me up with time. But the main company that I guess I was fully employed as a product designer was one of it was s even though it's a US based company, but most of the staffs there were Nigerians. So I was able to actually I was given the privilege to even learn and explore a lot of things I've actually learned in the previous time to actually explore using it in the team. And that actually really helped me a lot and for every other company I work simultaneously with them. Then I was even assigned some teams to some designers to work with and some other contract jobs I got. So that really helped me to actually expand for the learning and also teaching orders at the same time. So it was quite interesting anyway.

Dianne: Yeah. Oh my gosh, okay. Fascinating. Yeah. So you kind of had a little bit of everything. Like you got the contract, you got the full-time and kind of just like all the challenges and all the experiments.

Olamide: Yes, because for me, I couldn't get, lemme say in code a full-time job as a product designer cause I don't have enough experience. Yeah. Which is something most entry level designability phase right now. So no one is ready to give you incode a full-time job. So most of them will just want to give you a contract job of a month, two months, three months, six months. So through that some companies want to give you more shots to stay longer. So that was, I was able to touch most of my contract jobs and the other jobs I got initially the one I got research was a contract job for a very short period of time, but end up being a full-time job because they just say, okay, I love your work, just join us team fully. And that I keep exploring for that. So I was lucky most of my jobs I turned to full-time with started as a contract job. So after getting to work with them for a short time, they love what I do and just, okay, please stay with us full-time and airports manage the team in this particular direction.

Dianne: Yeah, and I think kind of the lesson here for designers listening is like, I think contract is a great way to go. I contracted a lot in my career too, and I think you shouldn't be scared of contract. I think it's a way to like test the waters for both parties too, right? So like the company is testing you, but you're also testing them. Like do you wanna be there for longer? Like how is that relationship working? Like I think it's a great way to kind of see

Olamide: Yes. So that, that's really true. It's just like you said, it's testing waters for B two parties because not all company, because I mentoring a lot of design, meet a lot of designers on ad police got me to understand how a lot of companies work. Some companies I mentioned don't really know the value of a product designer at that maybe pass at the early stage as a startup. So you might get up entering the company and the tax and work you being given is totally off what you actually applied for. For example, you apply to be a product designer, but you end up being a graphic designer in the company. So, so if if that does not align with your targets, then you have to work out of the job. You get my point. So so quite a number of l estate designer end up falling into that kind of job setting. And I'll just advise them if you know you want to stay on this, perhaps you enjoy doing graphic design, then good, then you know you really want to go on this career path, then you have to drop this. And luckily most of them immediately drop it, they quickly get another job and they keep moving on. So

Dianne: Far. Yeah, that's a great point. Yeah, don't feel stuck. Like if it's not a good fit, if it's like they're asking you to do work, that's not what your expectations are, it's not what you wanna do, that's not a great fit for you. Yeah, sure. Okay. Awesome. So let's, let's keep moving on your career journey. So you've had your first couple of gigs you've joined the company full-time. What's next? What did, what did you go, where did you go from there?

Olamide: Okay. so exploring for that. So most of the jobs I said I, I spent years doing contract jobs because I find a phone working. I'm not so much an in-out staff cause I've been doing remote job for years. Even before the pandemic, even though quite a number of people open. I used to remote jobs after or during the pandemic. So I've been doing my job for over four or five years now. So most of the jobs I get a lot of job offers for me to work in-house, but most times I always turn them down that I'm only open to work remotely. That was why I wasn't able to do most full-time jobs. So I really focus on stick to contract jobs where I, I was allowed to work remotely. So after pandemic, that is when I started getting full-time roles at on remotely.

So, which really allowed me to actually pitch to work with some companies. So CI was the first one that actually gave me shots to work full-time. So the other company that I'm presently working with, which is Mara though I guess the St coin Mara, the new name is actually Mara now. So they tried, gave me a shot to say, okay, yes, no problem, you can work us, work with us full-time with our staffs actually remote. And so ever since then I've just been exploring with them and phone working full-time now and it's quite enjoyable too, just like work previously. So doing that I was quite lucky that I got a part-time job at cemetery almost at the same time with Toptal because I was applying to work with Toptal for a while. Then I got a shot with them where I was fully accepted to work with the team there. So, and it has been quite intriguing and eyeopening also to work over there and work with quite a lot of big companies, which I've never even said working with also. So that's been interesting so far.

Dianne: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Okay. I have more questions about this. So first question is, so you've worked remotely contract and then you've worked full-time. So what are the benefits and maybe the negatives of each of those? Like which one do you like better?

Olamide: I think I'll stick to full-time jobs, I think so, yeah, because at least the, the, the, the fun thing with full-time jobs is that you have a a graduate process of growth and you will see how you're evolving with time, you understand. So contract jobs are formed also that it's quite what should I call it? Because sometimes contract jobs, they, most of the contract jobs I got most of these campaign don't have a big direction on what they want to do because most of the time they are start of, they just want someone to have the particular section of our project. And it keeps getting, I treated whether you just keep working on the project and on until when they get frustrated you just say, okay, no, you're not doing anymore and you just told me project date.

So most of the time I can't even show this project in my portfolio or showcase. I've actually work on the projects. Cause most of them die halfway. So yeah. You can spend 10 years lemme say don't lemme use that kind of a yes. You can spend three years working with contractors and you have nothing to showcase to all your work. Do you get my point? So that really created a lot of gap in my work experience because sometime when I even started applying for jobs for a mid or senior route said where are your works? I couldn't show anything because started that halfway. Do you understand? But if you work with full-time companies full-time roles or past part-time those ones actually you most times most companies you work with actually give you those roles are more structured and you, they will also always progress with the project and you can showcase to say, okay, now I bought, I build this products, I worked on this product and this, so for me, full-time is my best shot right now. So better than

Dianne: Contracts. Yeah, no, I mean that, those are very valid points I think when you're contractors yeah, you're usually working with small teams that are maybe a little more unorganized. It's just a different kind of role you're taking on. And I definitely have experience where kind of like pauses and nothing really comes out of it or you do a lot of work and maybe the startup fails. There's a lot of, there's a lot of what ifs there for sure, for sure. And then I would also love to know, like you working as a product designer for Toptal and working as a full-time designer for Mara. What are those differences? What do you like, what do you like more or less about them?

Olamide: Oh, okay. So working with Mara actually gave me even though it's a startup also in some way and new way work with startups, we don't really have, although at a stats you have a lot of work for you to do because you're working on everything from scratch, working on design system, working on the research and building a lot of things. So it's always very tasking that is right. And also eye-opening because you get to explore a lot of things and working with them actually look my eyes to a lot of things like to actually need to before because with whichever company you work with, you learn better. So that's how it works. They comparing them to Toptal, Toptal actually is still, let me say it's just an advanced contract job because it's not, I'm not working in hours with Toptal. They have to, I have to apply for jobs on the platform and they assign you to companies to work with them. So it's a more organized contract job. And so most of them actually give bring out big results eventually. So they, it's quite more interesting than the previous contract jobs I have actually faced. And since I'm actually doing part-time, it's when I'm free award, I just look for small projects to work with and I and it has been interesting so far to also out the way.

Dianne: Yeah, that's great. That's great. Yeah, and I think Toptal like that says a lot about you as a designer, right? They have like a vetting process, so you have to be accepted. Mm-Hmm. And you have to be in their like, network of top tier designers. So that's awesome. And I'm sure there's some really cool projects that you get to work on being a part of it.

Olamide: Yeah, sure. Yeah. yes, I was able to work on quite in a golf project. I, although I recently joined them this year way so due to the fact I'm working full-time with other companies, so I couldn't really take up more projects they have over the time. Despite that I've still be able to work with three different companies on Toptal. And it has been interesting at least two of them right now, they're working towards pushing out their products very early next year. And the third one, we are trying to complete the whole project. So it's quite interesting and or eyeopening also to work with different companies from different from different countries. So it's also very

Dianne: Good. Okay. So yeah, question about that. How, what are kind of the challenges of working o with companies that are from different countries?

Olamide: Oh yeah. Number one is time zone Number one is time zone cause yes, in, so they, I, I have been able to to adjust my time based on what their requirement is. But basically apart from that working with a new team entirely, because most times when companies come to talk to our perhaps they're starting a new product or perhaps they have a blockage, whether they don't know which direction to actually gonna need a senior designer to just jump in and perform a miracle. So I rare say Toptal designers are miracle performers because they call them are the last minute to just perform their magic on the projects and make make it work out. So apart from the ones that are starting fresh projects, if you're working with companies whereby they already have the products done, but they're just trying to give it a new look or refresh it somehow.

So by just go through UX or detain and doing a lot of other work. So, which is not as interesting as building from scratch everyone working on the project cause you are trying to adjust what someone else has done and perfect their health. So, but either way it's interesting working on projects and most of these companies are always, one thing I love about companies on Toptal is that they are, they exactly know what they want to do, which is very good because we're working with companies who know exactly what they're doing and they have their vision and mission quite clear. So when they bring you on board, they will just directly point you to, okay, this is where I want you to assist us, then jump onto that and you're able to move forward on it. So it's interesting so far and quite engaging also. Oh

Dianne: My gosh, that's great. Yeah, that's that's interesting. That's interesting for other people out there looking to work with Toptal or just in general companies in different countries it's always, always somewhat challenging but also like exciting to learn about new culture. So yes, that was great, thank you for that. So I wanna ask you more about this company that you co-founded, the virtual core creatives. Can we talk about that?

Olamide: Yes, no problem. Ok. Tell me, so lemme just give you a walk. What, what, what we did. Okay. So though we kind of post things at the moment because we are two co-founders and both of them are moving outside Nigeria right now. At least one of them is already in in uk and the other one might be moving any sometime soon. So we actually we started as a digital marketing agency whereby we help startups work on their branding social media designs. That is what, as I actually started, then later on we started getting request for us to help them work on their website or mobile apps and stuff like that. So that's why we keep working on. So we do virtually all those subs altogether and thank God we're able to work with most of the companies we got to work with basically most of them actually based in Nigeria.

Yeah, most of 'em actually based in Nigeria. So it's quite interesting working with brands in Nigeria, but ever since I've truly completely piloted into product design so that's why I had to put some of the work there on hold. Okay. So we had to put some of the work on all, but it was interesting starting up a team and working with different companies. Yes, it's something I just want to experiment and say, okay, how can this work out? It was quite challenging or true because getting to meet the clients and going through meetings and setting up a lot of these is quite challenging because that was my first startup in code. They at moment we had to post things because everyone two of my colleagues wants to move down to uk and so when they're fully settled then pass you can move things up and see how we can move move for down it.

Dianne: Yeah, I mean that's I, I, as a co-founder myself, I can totally relate to how challenging it is to start a company yourself. All the moving parts, getting customers, finding people to work with you. It's like a whole thing. So congrats on starting your own thing. And I think, do you plan to continue to focus on companies in Nigeria or are you kind of gonna broaden your horizons once you kind of start back up?

Olamide: Yeah, so why we start back up? Right now we are doing more of even learnings. I don't know if you know AJ and smart we actually, yeah, okay. So I, I decide to reach out to them just to get some things and learn from others. So my other colleagues who are doing their best to actually learn for that. So perhaps next day after we are able to learn what we can learn again, we can come back and actually build a better company. For we are personally that doesn we stop here. So we are starting our hopefully next year I'm pushing even a better brand. So yes, for sure we're going to reach out to more brands outside Nigeria. So we are not going to be restricted just only in Nigeria anymore.

Dianne: Gotcha, gotcha. Yeah, that, that's exciting. I'm looking forward to following along with that. So thank you. So yeah, so you, you have done a little bit of everything in the product design space, so thank you so much for walking us through your career path kind of where you've been, what you've been doing on what you've been doing. And my last question to you is, where do you see yourself in the future? Where do you wanna go?

Olamide: Okay. for me you know, working with different companies is good. Working with startups is very nice. Repeating your business, your own business, I think is still the most intriguing thing I've ever done. And which is something I will still really focus on the town. So I've been able to work with quite a number of teams. I've been able to mentor quite a lot, a number of people, and I believe I'm telling them to go and look for jobs outside there. I, I believe I can also even create jobs for them also, and with the ideas actually have in mind. And I'll always love to actually work with also startups and help them grow the best way I can using my expertise and everything. So most likely in the few next few years coming now I might not be working with companies anymore. Perhaps I can assisted with Topal, they're most likely I'll be starting my own company and I'm getting to also work with other startups and build the best way I can to contribute to

Dianne: Them. That's beautiful. I love it. I love it. I think startups are always super exciting. It's like an emotional rollercoaster in a good way. In a good way. So I am so excited for you to continue your journey and see kind of where you end up and how that goes. So thank you so, so much for, for joining me on this podcast, walking us through your career and all of those pain points and highs and lows. I really appreciate it.

Olamide: Yeah. And thank you very much for actually calling me to actually talk with you on this program and it's really amazing talking with you. Thank you very much for your opportunity.

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