#28 - Dinorath Espinoza - UX Design in a Rapidly Changing Industry

Mar 6, 2023Dianne Eberhardt

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,  Stitcher, Amazon Music, Google Podcasts, or on your favorite podcast platform. You can watch the interview on YouTube here.



Dianne: Hello everyone. Welcome to the Pixelated Perfect podcast. Today I have Dinorath with me, and she's going to let me know if I pronounced it correctly or tell me how to pronounce it. But super excited to have her on the podcast. She is a product designer at Open Earth Foundation. She actually recently took on a new job. So super excited to dive into some of those questions that some of you may have about that transition of transitioning to a new job. And she also, one of the things that she really loves is that she believes in empathy and focusing on the people. So I also think that's some great topics we can dive into as a UX designer. So thank you so much for being here.

Dinorath: Yeah, thank you. Thank you for inviting me.

Dianne: Of course, of course. Okay. First things first. Pronounce your name so I can make sure that I'm saying it correctly. Again,

Dinorath: . Yeah, I know, like this is very difficult, . It's, it happened a lot, so it's Dinorath but everyone calls me Dino, and if you want to say Dino, Dino, it's fine.

Dianne: Perfect. I like Dino. I feel like that's easier for me. . So awesome. So excited to have you. So I am going to ask you the prompt that I start with everyone is, when did design come into your life?

Dinorath: Well, I think from a very young age, I was very artistic. When I was four years old, I started dancing like ballet, flame tab, and other rhythms. I think I was very creative in that particular part. In some part of my, my youngest age, , I started to go to college because I wanted to be in, and at that time I wanted to be an architect. So I make collage of like this magazine related of, eh, of buildings and all these stuff, and like have the idea to create my buildings and my creation. So I first, I then like when the times

Dianne: Yeah, when you were younger. Yeah.

Dinorath: Yeah. I started studying architecture.

Dianne: Okay.

Dinorath: And when I study architecture, I learn a lot about design, about structures and also history. So that was my first contact in, well, the design has a background there because it's important to say in consideration the history, like the concept, also the quality of life, like design and space. And in this space, like people yeah, have a lot of things to, to obtain consideration, to create an architecture design. So I'm also doing research there. That was my first, eh, contact in design. Then I decided when I came, I'm from Venezuela. I came to Argentina five years ago. I decided to make a transition to this graphic designer. And when I study graphic design, I, they, I have a, like a small course related to UX UI design. Then when I discovered this new term in my life, I decided to go deep in the discipline. So yeah, I decided to, eh, start a course related to UX design, and then I, eh, found a job in an agency related to UX designer and well . That's basically my, yeah. My career path.

Dianne: Yeah. Yeah.

Dinorath: My journey.

Dianne: No, that's great. Okay. I have a few questions. So my first question is why architecture? What was it about architecture? Because you said you started off artistic and you kinda moved in collage and you got into architecture. So what was it about architecture that was so attractive to you? Yeah,

Dinorath: I think it was part of my parents because my dad works in, at that time, as a civil engineer. Mm. So he wants me to be the architect of his company. So yeah, he, oh, bought me a magazine of buildings, and then I started to make the glass. So I think in that was the first initiative dream I have

Dianne: . Yeah. Then,

Dinorath: But then like

Dianne: Your dad's like, this is what you should do. This is how you can help us. And you're like, yeah, let's do it. I love that. That's great.

Dinorath: Yeah, exactly. I think some of the parts I really like of architecture, but I think like the, yeah, I don't see myself working as an art architect, but I really enjoy the part of eh, the design and also to understand, eh, how this happened. And also I, the most, I, I like, like I study architecture is related to architecture history, like how cities build and all these things. That was like the things I first love

Dianne: . Yeah. I think that's great. My major was graphic design in college. But my minor was art history, and I have always been fascinated with, I mean, yeah, architecture of course, like buildings, paintings, like everything involved in life, how it got started. So I totally understand. I think there's like a love of looking at the past and recognizing the past to be able to design for the future. Yeah. So, yeah. I totally agree. I get, like, really excited about seeing some of the history and art around. So when we, we, you were studying history, was it just, was it architecture or was it also kind of like paintings and other types of creative outlets?

Dinorath: Well it's more really about architecture, but to understand the architect, it's like all the human path Yeah. About the human journey. And then when I decide to switch to graphic design, I study art history, like, oh, Vinci, like, yes. All the pain. Yeah.

Dianne: Yes, yes, yes, yes. Well, perfect. So were you when you made that transition from, from an architect major to a graphic design major, was that in Venezuela or when you came to Argentina, that's when you made that transition?

Dinorath: When I came to Argentina, Okay. Here I finished, like I, I can use some studies I made of architecture to complete graphic design. But yeah, I made it here in Argentina.

Dianne: Okay. So you're like a clean break. I am now going to like, follow this passion of graphic design kind of leaving Minnesota, telling your dad . Sorry dad, I

Dinorath: Am gonna, sadly,

Dianne: graphic design, . Were your parents kinda supportive of this transition from architecture to graphic design?

Dinorath: Well, I think my mother, yes, absolutely. My father at the first time, no. , yes. A big no, I think, but then like now he's like, okay with my decision. And also he's proud of my, of, of me or yeah,

Dianne: . Yeah, of course. Are your parents still in Venezuela? Are they also in Argentina?

Dinorath: No, they're still in Venezuela.

Dianne: Okay, okay. So your dad's like, okay, I get it. This is what she's gonna do. Yeah. , he's accepted it now. He's very happy in this direction. Yeah. I love that. I love that. So one question I have for you, which we kind of talked a little bit about, is what are the similarities of maybe studying architecture and moving to design? What was it about, where do you find that architecture and design collide and you kind of are doing similar things?

Dinorath: I think the mindset, like obviously the, the, like the user or the, the yeah. The target is different because it's, it's a different Yeah. Space. A different, yeah. , it's different. Yeah. But I think the mindset of design, like in architecture, it's the same mindset. You have a concept and the concept needs to solve a problem. Like solving the problem, you make the design. I think it's the same journey of any kind of design.

Dianne: Totally. No, I agree. I think especially relevant when you move into the UX field is like you really are building for a specific type of person, whether it's a building, Yeah. Residential, commercial. You have to understand who those users are, and that's exactly what we do on the ux.

Dinorath: Exactly. Yeah.

Dianne: I love that. I love that. Okay, so let's talk about this, you kind of first discovered u ui, ux, you said it was like a little course in school, and then once you learned about it, you took another course and you dove deeper into it.

Dinorath: Yeah, I go deeper in u t I design, like all these new books, these new terms,

Dianne: ,

Dinorath: Yes. This new like design thinking or this new framework they have or what new. And also it was a lot of information. I'm still learning, I think, yeah, all, like all the ways we have a new framework or we have a new way to do, or new tools like TO or something to integrate on, on our way to work. So yeah. That's exciting too, because it's not boring. I, I guess. Yeah.

Dianne: No, I agree. I think that as designers, things are constantly shifting and changing. Like that's what's kind of exciting about our field is like, I mean, when I studied graphic design and graduated, like UX wasn't a thing. Like it obviously wasn't a thing, but it didn't have that title of like ux like you were like, oh, I'm a web designer, or something like that. And you can see how far it's come. And it's so interesting to think of it like, look how far it's come in such a short period of time and like all the new things are gonna come out. Like Yeah, ai, yeah. G B T, it's really fascinating. It's a fascinating space to be in because of the rapid change, but it also means that we have to stay on our toes and constantly feel like we're learning and gathering all of the new things. Always. Yeah.

Dinorath: always,

Dianne: Always, always like, what's new? What's new with fmo? What is the best new plugin? Like, oh my gosh, it's every day. Every day is something new. Yeah.


Dianne: For sure. So what would you tell designers that are looking to make that transition from graphic design to UX design? Maybe what you learned from the course or what you would suggest they look for in a course?

Dinorath: Yeah, I think two things are the main things. I guess one is like to be curious, eh, like to, yeah, to be autonomous, to study. Like, yeah, search about new frameworks, search about books, eh, also, eh, listen to a podcast. I think like there is always information there and also there are a lot of people like, eh, trying to, yeah. To bring the conversation and eh, have more knowledge and yeah. Share that knowledge. I think that's very useful to be curious. And the second is like to leave the ego, I think in our discipline, eh, yeah. The designer maybe. I don't know. But I think some architects and designers I know maybe have that ego like, yeah, what I do is perfect or something, or yeah, close to be perfect. Definitely. I think in UTI you don't have the reason and the user has the, the last word. So I think like to leave that ego, yeah, focus on the, solve the problem and also to, to solve the user problem is the, the big thing.

Dianne: I think that was very well said. I really love how you framed it and yes, I think it's, it's not about you, the designer at all. Like you're honestly just like a tool or in this cycle of being able to understand the users and help your customers build products that are aligned with your user's goals, right? So it's like eco at the door and also using data and research to have a re like, to explain why you're choosing these designs. Like you can always back up if you always have something to back up. The reason you chose that and how it's going to benefit that designer, that's obviously like gonna go a long way. And that's really where we come in as those experts.

Dinorath: Yeah, I think so. I think it's very important to, yeah, maybe yeah, like to have your, you have the data or you have like, you can make a, a user interview, but I think like at the end, like if you launch something and the users don't like, or users can finish the task, eh, there is a problem, so we need to solve it and eh yeah. You need to work on

Dianne: That. Yes. And there's like all those memes and everything going around like, you watching users use your product for the first time and it's like they do everything completely opposite of what you would've ever predicted.

Dinorath: Yeah.

Dianne: And you don't know why.

Dinorath: And then, and then you, you, you see like, you, you can leave your ego

Dianne: You right? You have to. Yeah. I mean you can say the user is dumb all you want, but if they continuously are not able to use the product, then it's obviously Yeah.

Dinorath: Not . Yeah.

Dianne: Yeah. It's not that I miss you.

Dinorath: Yeah. That happens.

Dianne: That definitely is a big ego. Yeah. Drop, I don't know how to phrase it. Yeah. Your ego has to be gone cuz there's no amount of defending your work. That's going to be a reason to keep that design if the user doesn't understand it.

Dinorath: . Yeah.

Dianne: That's so I'm gonna put you on the spot. You said that to be curious, is one a recommendation for you? Cause then I love that. Totally agree. I think it also goes really well with no ego. You said that you like people, you should always be searching for frameworks, books, and listening to podcasts. Do you have any books or podcasts that you would recommend that are your favorites?

Dinorath: Yeah, well I think you at one it's very useful, like also common books. But I think like, well I start working in a first agency, like a small agency and then in, in startups. And I think that's really helps me because yeah, sometimes I don't have a big team. Yeah, I think it's a really good book to start also if you, if you are in a startup. The second I think I listen to a podcast is a Spanish podcast , unfortunately, but it's really good because he, Chris, explains a lot there, their own. They have many episodes, so he talks about their experience and also their work and how he deals with some things in his job. So it's very interesting to be hurt more than anything he's doing. I learn a lot, a lot of this. But also he made interviews with other product designers or devs or designers in general. So yeah. Yeah, I like, I like that.

Dianne: No, that's a great recommendation. And we have quite a few Spanish speakers that listen to the podcast, so I think that's a great recommendation. We'll definitely like to add that to the explanation of this podcast so people can check out the book, the podcast. Thank you for those resources. I think that's great. Great. Okay, so let's move into jumping into your first job. So I went to graphic design school, went to some UX UI courses and kind of got knowledge and you're like, okay, this is it. This is where I wanna be. How did you go about getting that first job?

Dinorath: I think it was difficult because I'm, well, I, it wasn't in that time that it's in a new country, , new person, new market. So I think it was very difficult. But well, I found a job here in Argentina, at an agency. It was a very small agency, so they are looking for a designer quickly and also like he likes my portfolio. So I think that's a very good thing, like having a portfolio. Yeah, at that time, my focus was first in UI design because it was more related to graphic design. So yeah, I think that's helped me a lot. Like, eh, the graphic design and all this part of the, to the portfolio.

Dianne: Yeah.

Dinorath: Yeah, I think it was a very good experience, but I know it's difficult now. The market is difficult too, so yeah, I think the most important is to be patient and also like yeah. Apply to, to, to all the jobs you find and you think you match to the job.

Dianne: Yeah, I mean I think that's great advice. I think it's like, this is probably not what designers wanna hear, but it is a numbers game, not always. Yeah. But I think the more you apply obviously the more interviews and the more you'll be able to find that perfect fit. So it is like definitely be patient and just keep sending out your portfolio.

Dinorath: Yeah. I think it's difficult. . Yes, because eh, yeah. Like maybe you have a, like someone rejects you and you can Yeah. It's sad or maybe you can feel like not well, but yeah, there is the opportunity. And also in these industries, we always need more designers. So yeah, you have to like apply, apply, apply and also improve your portfolio as for feedback in, in interviews. So the feedback, it's also a good way to improve your profile.

Dianne: Oh, I love that. I love that. Yes. I think that also is kind of like going back to that ego is like, put your portfolio out there, get feedback, update it, understand what you can do differently,

Dinorath: Specifically for the portfolio. I think I asked for feedback on some projections I have. Yeah, it helped me a lot, eh, to improve my portfolio. Like maybe more know about the designs, more about the storytelling or you are not, eh, showing like the result of the product. And that's very useful to the companies. Maybe your portfolio, like the projects you have, is not related to the companies. So if you apply to a financial application or financial company, it's better if you have maybe site projects, but they are related to finance.

Dianne: It's almost like common sense. Like we know that like, oh, obviously you should be applying, but we don't do that. And so I'm glad you pointed that out because yes, it's kind of obvious, but I really think about what you have in your portfolio because I think a lot of designers are like, oh, I'm so fascinated with crypto. We'll use finances and triple crypto. And like, they like the idea and they've done work that looks good, but never in the crypto space and they're trying to get jobs in crypto and it's like, hey, , crypto's complex. I actually had a conversation with one of the designers on my team that comes from the crypto background and it's definitely like a whole other industry. So if you have no design experience and they most likely you're not gonna get in. So what can you do? Yeah. A test project or explain how you know more about crypto, put it into your portfolio in whatever capacity because just showing like, yeah, oh, I did a website for a beauty company is not gonna get you a job in the crypto space.

Dinorath: . Yeah, exactly. And also the things I, I found very useful, eh, to, yeah, to grow as a professional is like to get mentorship. There is a platform name. The name is a D P list. Yes. And it's very useful because eh, they have mentors that give mentorship free and yeah, they're awesome. Like, yes, I take like, like three in all my process and helps me a lot to improve my portfolio, to improve like my applications to improve my designs. Like Yeah, that's

Dianne: Very useful. Yeah. Great advice. We actually have had quite a few dp list design mentors on the podcast who have given great advice to designers that are looking. Yeah. And I, I mean that's such a great resource because yeah, it's free, there's no like, exchange of anything, right? It's just like great designers that want to help other designers and it comes from such a good place and I feel like everyone just benefits so much from it. So I'm glad you said that. Yeah, definitely a great resource . Thousand percent. Okay, so let's dive back into this journey where you have your first job at a small agency focusing mostly on the UI side. What was that like getting your first gig and how were you able to actually start working in an agency world?

Dinorath: Well, I think well that experience was very, like if I go to the back, I, I made like a lot of Project . I was like a printer project one projecting. Yeah. Okay. There are a lot of roles there. Well, I like, what, what I did there was first I made a lot of like UI part no, related to us. And what I tried to do is to integrate things about us in my work. Like, well, eh, what happened is we did a benchmark first. Like that was the first thing, okay, well let's do a benchmark and then well if we, if we show the user flow and then we tested the user flow and we, we have this meeting with the deputy, this functional, okay, that's, that's, that's great. And also the best was happy to have that and participate in the project.

Dinorath: Then I try another, eh, another tool like, well if we, like we have a new customer and they have a bigger idea and we don't have idea of the, of the project. Like, well if we, eh, like to interview some people related and if we ask the customer, like if they have contact with the user, they want to implement this application. So yeah, I think what's like proactively trying to encourage the thing that we don't need only to have the screens in UI we need to maybe understand and also the, that helps to, to bring the project more EF useful and also more operate I think with the idea. Yeah. So yeah, I think that was my experience in that agency, like how we, how we can do this. Like more users, eh, focus yeah, then I start in another agency, go eh, thinking eh, they have well they have a bigger team that in my previous agency they have a, a team leader. So he helps me a lot to formalize my UI skills because he'll teach me about, well if we do design systems, if we use components and we use libraries, this is better with the communication with the devs. Yeah, I think I always learned always. I try

Dianne: Yeah, that's great.

Dinorath: Off of my job. So yeah. Then I participate in projects. Like I think I was more like, oh, now I know UI eh better and I implement eh, function functions of UX and then . Yeah, I start a project more like an end to end related management subscription. It was a big project. I have a project that was my first, eh, project that I made alone, and to and use like all the things I learned in the course and also the things I learned in the, in all my process.

Dianne: That's great.

Dinorath: So yeah, I think that was my experience in agencies.

Dianne: Yeah. So this big end-to-end project, was this in the second agency you were in or this was like a whole separate project? In

Dinorath: The agency.

Dianne: In the agency. Okay. Okay. That's awesome. Yeah. So you like, felt like you got all the skills necessary and you were able to kind of dive into end-to-end in this first end-to-end project. What were some of the surprising moments that you weren't expecting? Like what were some things that maybe came about that you were like, oh, that's not what I thought was part of the process? Cause I think what's really interesting is like we have this ideal uxi process. , yeah. And that's not real life. It just, it never is. Yeah. It never is. So what happened in this first end to end where you're like, oh, wait, I can't always follow the process exactly how I would like to

Dinorath: Yeah, I think they have a platform. So the idea was to already sign the platform, and also implement a new dashboard. So that was the idea. Yeah, I think the things I learned like that are the first user testing of the current platform. So we discovered things that don't work on the platform, so mm-hmm. . Yeah, that was the first impression, like we don't, we don't make like interviews first we made testing first then yeah. Then for the new dashboard, it was a new functionality, more analytics dashboard because they don't have, so that was another process and also another project inside the whole redesign. And they need the, the project needs other other things to do. Yes. So yeah, I think that was my, I impress like you have to adapt to the project on the, on the needs.

Dinorath: And one things helped me a lot is like in one of my course, because I, I always learn they have like a framework when you put all the things you know about the project, all the things you don't know about the projects and the the things you can make to eh, have clarity on the things you don't know about the project. So like to, to visualize those things helps me a lot to know currently in the projects too. Well, in this project we know that this world and this world, but eh, like maybe this flow doesn't work. Yeah. In this project we don't know anything about the users, so we need to eh, make a discovery process first. So yeah, I think that was my, my learnings there. Yeah,

Dianne: That's great learning. And I love that framework too. And I, I think that that's, I think we're such visual people, so like taking any of these concepts and like actually like writing them out, like you said, like what do I know? What I don't know, what I can learn is really helpful. What is, what is your advice to designers, maybe more junior designers that are still learning this skill on how to talk to stakeholders and how to convince them to do a round of user testing or that you feel strongly the steps shouldn't be skipped because of the importance of it and the overall objective of the the project? Yeah.

Dinorath: Well there are things that the user, yes, user experience designers mentioned a lot, but it's about the cost, eh, about the cost. Like, eh, make changes in the, in the process, eh, can cost like first maybe make changes in a discovery, eh, step is more cheap than make it when the, the application is already launched. So I like to show that cost for the company. And it's very useful to explain the importance that interviews can have. So yeah, I think like when, when I was doing my first job, I think my first approach was, well, eh, maybe if I show this in, for example, these user flows can help the depths. So the desk was interesting to have the user flow because they can make the backend requirements first and also like to have the project more quickly. So yeah, I think you have to be pr proactive and yeah, try to like, try to balance the business needs and try to balance the user needs. And with all these, these, these both things in the conversation, you can have a better conversation with a stakeholder because you can talk in the same language. Language.

Dianne: Yes.

Dinorath: So yeah, I think

Dianne: That's amazing. That's amazing advice. And that's amazing advice for your level of designer because I feel like a lot of designers don't know the business side of things, and that's something that's really hard for them to grasp. So I love that you said that. And for designers that are getting started or are in their first few years of, yeah. The UX industry, how can they learn more about business or how did you learn more about the business side? Whoa,

Dinorath: , I think curiosity and also learn about the industry. What happened? Well, now I'm in a different industry than my last job, my last job was about the logistics side. So first I focus on how logistic, logistic eh, works and how this company works. So yeah, like first, eh, know about the business and then you can start the conversation. So yeah, what I did is it's to make, like, for example, in, in my previous job, job, like to make, have one-on-ones to all the, all the team so I can learn their perspective and also like make all the questions you have about like, in that time about the logistic. I, I, I, I didn't know anything about logistics and all the process. It's all manual, it's very difficult, . But yeah, I think you need to ask all the questions you need, so that helps you to understand the business. Yeah, the necessity of the business. And then you can start to talk in the same language to your stakeholders.

Dianne: Yes. Okay. That's great advice. I think that what's great about design is that we can literally jump into so many different industries and learn so much. So obviously being curious is a super important part of being a designer. But then we get to learn about things like logistics, like maybe we thought we would never be able to learn about logistics. There we're and trying to make the process better, which is super exciting.

Dinorath: Exactly. I'm in the pro in that process right now, so

Dianne: . Yes, I know, I know. And I, we, I wanna get there. I wanna make sure we have time for that. So, we kind of left off where you had your first end-to-end project at this agency. You had a great leadership team that really helped you learn your UI skills. And then we just talked about this kind of logistics. So what was that transition from an agency to is, was this a startup? The logistics company?

Dinorath: Yeah, this was a startup. It's a startup. Yeah, well, eh, what happened is in the agency I have like projects like, eh, you start with the project and the project ends and they continue separately from the agency. So, ah, in that time I want to be in a product and like in a specific product and also like to try to learn about the evaluation of the product results. So yeah, I decide to, to make the transitions to a product. I found a job in this startup's related logistics state. It was my first job in English, like completely in English. So that was a very good challenge. .

Dianne: Yeah, I mean it forces you, you had to, you didn't have a choice.

Dinorath: , that's great. Exactly. I I still learning, like improving my English . So

Dianne: Your English is great, your English is great

Dinorath: for the listeners. So yeah I made the transition. It was very good for me because now I implement things, changes like, for example, redesign all the booking section platform of all the search to echo the platform and see the results like, eh, quantitative and like using good analytics. And we, in that part, in that time I use . So that was very, like, I, I think I love the analytics because it's like you see the numbers, right? Yes. So yeah, now, now I want to grow on, on that part, like, eh, continue growing because eh, of course I'm not the, the expert I still learning. So yeah. But I think that was the thing I love about my experience in that startup. Like my first yeah, the first time I see numbers like, yeah, oh my god, this, this really helps the, the signups or help the flow or people like we have this number of people like booking the platform increase or decrease. So yeah, that was

Dianne: Awesome. That's great. I think looks are such a big part of the UX process and it's, it's great because we have, we can benchmark, we can essentially say, Hey, this is what it was. Yeah. And then after the design, here's what it is. And then you're also how you spoke about costs, like what is the cost of the business? Like if they can see how many new signups because of Yeah. What you did, what the design team did, that's like, yeah. Huge. So that's super exciting. Yes. Yeah, and I love that you were able to kind of experience that in your last company. I'm sure you'll take it with you. It sounds like that's something you wanna continue to grow.

Dinorath: Yeah. Yeah. definitely.

Dianne: Very cool. So how long were you at this logistics company and what, what was that transition into where you are now?

Dinorath: Well, I have been in Starbucks about logistics for one year and a half. So yeah that was my experience. And then like the last two weeks I start a new job, , and it's about all like, a completely different industry is the climate tech industry. So it's a lot of terms that I have never heard . So yeah, I, I'm transitioning right now, the, the, the change. So, well, I think what the things I, the reason I, made the change because it's the, it's the mission of the company, like to help the world and yeah, basically that's like, I, I don't know, I like that. They take my heart , so yeah, ,

Dianne: No, I think that's great. I think us designers, while we learn about a ton of different things like logistics or whatever, it is always really great to be able to work for a company that like, you feel like their mission is aligned with your mission or it's a do good type of company that always,

Dinorath: Yeah, like you feel like you, you're doing something, so yeah. Something bigger than you.

Dianne: So I like that. Yes.

Dinorath: Yeah, I like that.

Dianne: So what has this transition been like when you came into the company two weeks ago? Was there like a structure for that they gave you of like how you can kind of get all this knowledge, get up to speed or is this kind of something you've been creating yourself of how to get all the information you need to?

Dinorath: Well, no, they, fortunately they have that onboarding process Perfect. That was very useful to, eh, well I'm continually working on that, but it's very useful to know about the business, know about the company, know about the mission, know about all the terms, eh, they have and know about all the things about the platform. So yeah, I'm working on that. I'm also, well, eh, talking with my coworkers, with my, my teammates, so yeah. And in, in that part of the, of the transition

Dianne: . So is there, is this, is there already a design team there, there, or are you the sole designer?

Dinorath: No, no, they're other designers. Okay. Eh, yeah, I have a product team, like a product owner, eh, director of product. So yeah, I'm not alone. , that's,

Dianne: Yeah,

Dinorath: It's a small team, but I'm not alone.

Dianne: . Yes. Yes. So what advice would you give to designers that are kind of jumping into a new company or because you're so into it right now, like you talked about one-on-ones earlier and just now, and I think that's great advice is like schedule one-on-ones with as many people as possible. Are there any other like tidbits or anything else that you could recommend for someone making a transition?

Dinorath: Yeah, I think scheduling a one-on-ones, it's a good one because you can meet your teammates and also like having this bonding with them, with the people. The second one was like make all the questions you have, like, because the first month is the, the right time to make all the questions. So yeah, don't be afraid to ask things. Like maybe it's a dumb thing for you, but it's not. So Yeah, I think ask, ask anything .

Dianne: Yes. That's

Dinorath: Great. Cause if you,

Dianne: If you get like three months down the road and there's like a term you don't know and you have like been working on it, but you never asked, then it's like you ask then, right? So like

Dinorath: Exactly. , ask

Dianne: Everything. Yes, yes.

Dinorath: Ask everything, everything. I think the last thing is like, well I'm struggling with that right now, but be patient like, yeah, you don't have to know everything right now, so be patient. I struggle with that, to be honest, , because I want to, to like go fast. Yes.

Dianne: Yeah.

Dinorath: But yeah, I think you have your time to understand the things and this is the time to understand all the product banks, all the team and all the business. So it's time.

Dianne: No, I think that's great advice. I think that no one's expecting you to all of a sudden have all of this knowledge. It's like they want you to take this time and learn and understand, and that's what this first month or longer, depending on the complexity, that's like what that's,

Dinorath: Yeah. For me, maybe it's difficult because I want to feel like useful

Dianne: . Yes, yes.

Dinorath: But the reality is no, it takes time. So

Dianne: Yes. Yeah, no, that's really great advice because I'm the same way. I'm like, okay, I'm ready. Like give it to me, I'm going to dive in. Yeah,

Dinorath: ,

Dianne: Which sometimes is great, sometimes it does make sense. There are instances where, hey, just go for it and see what happens. Yeah. But also like to trust the process that your team has set out for you , and that's what they want you to, to kind of follow. So Yeah. No, that makes sense. I'm excited for you. This is a super interesting world you're now discovering and it sounds really exciting.

Dinorath: , thank you.

Dianne: So my last question to you is, where do you see yourself going? Like what is, where do you wanna be in five years or what type of what, what are new things that you wanna discover in, in the design space?

Dinorath: Well, that's a difficult question.

Dianne: . Yes, it's

Dinorath: and because I think that the words change, like . Yes. So I don't know. But yeah, I want to continue growing as a professional, like to get more seniority. I want to maybe sometimes in the future, like having a team and leading a team. I would like to have that experience. Yeah, I think now I'm, I want to be a sponge Yeah. And learn a lot. And yeah, maybe in the future, like maybe lead a team or also like to understand more about AI and all this new web three , because I, I think it's the future. So yeah. I, I like

Dianne: That. Yes. I feel like you have, you definitely fit into this designer mindset. It's like, learn, grow, be a sponge, like pick up everything new. I think that's amazing. And I

Dinorath: Also, because I I'm, I don't have a lot of years in the industry, so yeah, I think in, I'm in, in that in that size of the, of the journey.

Dianne: Definitely. Definitely. Like there's so much more, it's like, I say this on the podcast all the time, so if people listen to it, they're probably tired to me saying this, but like the more experienced I get in the design space, the more I realize, I don't know

Dinorath: . Yeah, there's

Dianne: Always so much more to learn no matter what stage you are at, because like we talked about at the beginning, this industry is constantly shifting and changing and there's just so many frameworks and so many books and so many new processes to absorb and understand and see if it's helpful. So like, it's, it's fascinating. Yeah. Like I think that's kind of what's great about this industry is you're always growing and always learning. You are never, always knowing exactly where things are going or what's next or what you can discover tomorrow.

Dinorath: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, for sure.

Dianne: I love that. Well, thank you so much for having this podcast. I really enjoyed learning about your career and all of this advice you're giving to designers that are kind of coming into the industry and getting started in design. So I think there's a lot of really great tidbits. So I really appreciate you taking the time to chat with me.

Dinorath: No, I really appreciate the invitation course. So yeah, it's, it's very nice to be in a podcast . Yeah, it's my first podcast to be honest.

Dianne: Yay. And you'll continue to do more, I'm sure. I'm sure . Well yeah, thank you. We are looking forward to falling along on your journey. So we will definitely stay in touch and see how things go after week

Dinorath: Two, . Yeah, sure. after week two. Exactly.

Dianne: Awesome. Well thank you so much and we will chat soon.

Dinorath: Thank you.

Dianne Eberhardt

Dianne Eberhardt

    Let’s build something awesome together!

    Get Started!